Have we officially declared the 800 meters to be the most intensely painful footrace a human can run?

I think its different for different people. For me I choose the marathon. It's similar to getting punched in the face vs. getting your wisdom teeth removed. Getting punched (800m) is clearly more painful in terms of pain level/second but the wisdom teeth (marathon) sucks because it lasts a lot longer. IMO being moderately uncomfortable for an hour is worse than intense pain for a short period of time. But to each his own, not knocking anyone here

It doesn't happen so often, but what about the occasions when a sprinter pulls a hamstring* at top speed?

* or worse (for example Giorgi Georgiev in Helsinki - if you don't know what I'm referring to, search Broken Knee in Helsinki on youtube)

Thought this was about horse racing

You really need to be more specific. Adding foot race on a running site is just not enough to avoid confusion

How about this analogy?

5K - anesthetic wearing off during root canal surgery

800m - being hit with the face with a baseball bat

Shawn,

Of course I respect you and anyone else who puts their butt on the line in a race of any distance. Thats besides the point, this is a friendly debate. As I already mentioned, me telling you about my past isn't to brag or belittle you, its to add credibility.

As for your last argument, it seems like it makes sense on the surface but physiologically it doesn't. Closing a 5k utilizes much different energy system than running an 800 at max effort. Totally different feelings because two different things are going on in your body.

800 METER DEATH SPRINT wrote:

Nothing and I mean NOTHING hurts like an 800. I still have nightmares of being forced to run it over 10 years ago. I chuckle to myself when people are impressed by someone being able to run a marathon. Hell, I've run plenty of marathons and they ain't SHIT compared to an 800 meter death sprint.

Yea, that 800 can be hell! The intensity of the pain does seem a bit different. Although the suffering you might need to endure in a 1/2 M can be a serious torture session. But I gotta admit the 800 is the only race that caused me to pass out!!

dial it up wrote:

Shawn,

Of course I respect you and anyone else who puts their butt on the line in a race of any distance. Thats besides the point, this is a friendly debate. As I already mentioned, me telling you about my past isn't to brag or belittle you, its to add credibility.

As for your last argument, it seems like it makes sense on the surface but physiologically it doesn't. Closing a 5k utilizes much different energy system than running an 800 at max effort. Totally different feelings because two different things are going on in your body.

You are right, two totally different things ARE going on in your body: 1. You're running hard for, say, 4200 meters which is bad enough because of the almost 3 miles of lactic acid build-up and muscle fatigue. 2. THEN you're running that all-out 800 meters after that, which is unquestionably lights out. Let me try this again to make it more simple: Running 4200 (or 9200) meters AND THEN running an all-out 800 meters is greater than (>) running an all-out 800 meters. Both hurt, but to use a previous poster's analogy, running a hard 5K or 10K (let's just stick to common middle distances since I never ran the marathon) and then going all out against a fierce competitor for the last 800 meters is like "anesthetic wearing off during a root canal" AND THEN "being hit in the face with a baseball bat." That's what it feels like for a runner when they actually do a 5K all-out with a long, half-mile kick to the finish, especially in a cross country race. I don't see us agreeing on this, so I'll just end by saying you are one of the most studly awesome runner the world has ever seen, and the fact that you run the 800 meters proves that without any doubt. LOL. Later, my friend.

oh give me a break. try running sub-2 at the end of a 10k.

Dial and other awesome 800 meter specialists, I want you to watch this video of the 1999 Footlocker Cross Country championship. The quality isn't great, but I want you to watch Dathan Ritzenhein run 4200 meters and then go balls-to-the-wall for the last 800. THIS is MORE PAIN than a single 800 meters, and THIS what I'm talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbsAC1n-AC0#t=480

Randy Oldman wrote:

In the last 150m of a 5K you can still breathe. In an 800m you're basically drowning.

The last 150 of the 5k can hurt for sure but in that last 150 of the 800 the body can fail! The legs don't work like they should which can be scary in addition to being intensely painful.

How 'bout the 400 hurdles. I heard that's pretty miserable.

I've also heard the 3k steeple is very painful (never run it because I can't jump).

It's interesting, though - I don't hear nearly as many complaints about race pain from 5k-marathon runners as I do from 800 runners or 3k steeplechasers.

I always hear things from 800 guys and 3k steeple guys like, "that was horrible. i never want to do that again."

But not so often from 5k+ guys.

cbenson4 wrote:

How 'bout the 400 hurdles. I heard that's pretty miserable.

I've also heard the 3k steeple is very painful (never run it because I can't jump).

It's interesting, though - I don't hear nearly as many complaints about race pain from 5k-marathon runners as I do from 800 runners or 3k steeplechasers.

I always hear things from 800 guys and 3k steeple guys like, "that was horrible. i never want to do that again."

But not so often from 5k+ guys.

Watch the video I posted above. I've run all-out races in everything from the 800 through the 10K, and I'd put the 800 meters at about fourth or fifth on my pain list. But again, it really matters how you train. When I ran mostly the mile and the 800 in high school, we ran so many 100s, 200s and 400s that I was used to running at nearly top speed for shorter distances, so the 800 just wasn't as tough as the longer stuff. Yes, you have a horse on your back for the last 150 meters, but in a longer race you carry a little horse that just keeps getting fatter and fatter the further you go.

800m is worse than a 5k. There is a reason why they have road races and "5k fun runs". They don't have "800m fun runs".

Here is my feeling during the 800m

First 100m you get out fast, going really close to your 400m effort. You keep it up the second 100 to keep your position. You don't feel terrible yet, but I always have a feeling in my stomach like I know it is going to suck. You go through pretty fast, then it is the easiest 200m. The last 200m of the first lap you are cruising at a fast pace, but because of your training you can run this 28 second 200m and not feel too bad.

Now the real torture begins. It always seems like there is no fatigue the first lap and it all comes on you on the second. You have to pick it up to keep up with the competition, you begin to dig deep from 400m-500m. You are now on the backstraight, so far left to go is what you think. I become discouraged and try to keep positive here. Then there is 200m left. At this point I have lost the bounce in my step and don't feel like I have explosive power anymore. I try to push to beat out the competitors.

At this point you are tired and have some good lactic acid buildup and your muscles begin to feel tight. 100m left, so close yet so far. You are now basically going all out. Hopefully you get an adrenaline boost to bring you in. You try to focus on your form and lift knees and use all the power you can. You gut it out to the finish and are finally done. You begin to have blurry vision and are lightheaded. More crap happens but I am done.

Also I just want to add why the 800m is much worse than the 5k. The 800m has evolved into a race that is no longer distance but now a long sprint. More and more sprint types are having success, because that lactic acid buildup is what they are used to. Also why are there 5k runners on here talking about feeling lactic acid in a 5k? You realize lactic acid comes from anaerobic work (sprinting) not aerobic (distance running).

At any rate, the 5k is more relaxed and comfortable throughout the race. You don't question if you have enough speed and are burning yourself out. Also if someone goes out fast in a 5k you have much longer to cactch up and can do so slowly. In the 800m you react quickly and must stay within reach, which may mean running the first lap faster than you want. To me the 1600 is the most natural running pace, running one lap of it is not too slow, not too fast. 800m is a little too fast. 5k is too slow. But we all know slower is easier than faster.

800m Runna Bruh wrote:

800m is worse than a 5k.

I've run the last 800 of a 5k faster than the personal bests of 99% of these posters who say 800m is the hardest race. Give me a ******* break.

I'm not saying the 5k is less painful. Don't jump on me bruh lol. Notice how often i said "I've heard." I myself am a 5k-10k runner, and I've run the 800 and up before.

And yes, that footlocker race is quite something. Gotta love Ritz.

Yada, yada, yada. Lactic acid comes at lactate threshhold pace. Granted, not as intense as later on when you actually really kick at the end of a long race. But in a long race you can get BOTH the drawn-out pain of the lactate threshhold distance AND the intense lactic acid tie-up. But you can't separate the last part of a 5K or 10K from the kick to the finish. I've run longer races where I had to kick for up to a half mile from the finish because the other runner(s) was trying to burn out my kick rather than wait for the last 200 or 100 as I would have preferred. If you have ever run a really hard 5K or 10K and then actually gone all-out for the last 800 meters, you know that it's a double wammy. I'm starting to think some of these 800 meter guys have never done this. It's just common sense, let alone experience. I repeat: 1 (the 800) < X + 1. But you 800 meter guys just go on with your nonsense. I still love you 800 meter guys.

Shawn H wrote:

gone all-out for the last 800 meters

You can't. No matter how good a 5000 runner you are, it's impossible to use your energy systems like that.

800's are positive split because they start with a full tank of phosphocreatine and a baseline blood pH level. Starting fresh means you can use more anaerobic glycolysis and of course pay the price with the sudden pH drop that results. You finish on mainly aerobic energy. That's the fastest you can go.

You can't go that fast at the end of a 5000 because you're starting out at a lower pH and have no ATP/CP to hit top speed with. When you kick, you will still get a further pH drop, but it is self-limiting because it quickly throttles your anaerobic power before it can generate much extra acid.

In an 800 or 400 so much acid is generated that the pH drop gains momentum of its own and continues even after it starts limiting muscle action, and often for the next 10 to 20 minutes after the race.

bad wigins, I like you but you don't have a ******* clue. What is your 800 pb and what have you run for final 800 at the end of a 5000.

Shawn H wrote:

I'm starting to think some of these 800 meter guys have never done this. It's just common sense, let alone experience. I repeat: 1 (the 800) < X + 1. But you 800 meter guys just go on with your nonsense. I still love you 800 meter guys.

It's the distance runners, not the "800 meter guys" who think the 800 is the hardest event. People who naturally have the physiology to be great 800 meter runners will find the 10K to be MUCH worse.

People who naturally have muscle fibers for the marathon, but are forced to compete in the 800, are the ones who find that race to be pure death.