Road Racing and Training Thread - Week Ending 10/12

Stone Cutter- Oh man, that's an awesome story, and I have had some running experiences recently that can make me relate to that. (I don't think I would ever have the cojones to post those stories on here, but I am sure you have read the threads on people who went running after eating the spicy wings at Quaker Steak and Lube, and I'll leave it at that)

More importantly, that's awesome you ran 2:47 pace while dealing with that ordeal.

As for my triple, I should have qualified that none of the runs were faster than 7:40/mi average and the last one was with my wife at about 9 min/mi pace. I know your comment was mostly one of humor, but more details never hurt. The total ended up being about what I originally intended to run for the day anyways off of a double.

Pikachu- Nice step towards getting your fitness back. I like how you got in 3 quality sessions this week (fartlek Wednesday, tempo Friday, and long run Sunday) while showing the discipline to listen to what your body is up for that day.

Pewow- Nice job plugging away. good luck this weekend!

Netwerk Errer- The hay is in the barn and you're in great shape. The injury scare can be a blessing in disguise and force you to take a couple of more days of rest, but it sounds like you should be able to roll in a couple of weeks.

Slartzio- Sounds like you are getting in some solid off season training. The weights definitely remind me that I have to start going back into the weight rooms to address some of my weak areas as well.

Ghola- Nice run! I have heard that it's a tough course as well, especially if you don't adjust well for it. I have seen 63-min HM guys running 65-67 on there, so the 2-3 min adjustment definitely sounds right.

Matthias- Nice workout on Wednesday, you're definitely in shape so hopefully the sore legs have recovered from the couple of days off, but you can definitely afford to take it easy for a bit.

Xenonscreams- Just thinking of it as a rustbuster, and sometimes your fitness gains over the prior year won't show up right away since you are also doing higher quality/quantity of training leading up to the early season races. Good luck next weekend!

Forcerunner- Looks like you're ready to roll. Good luck!

NP1112- Way to run that extra half mile so you can beat me again this week. I want a recount on your garmin data. My McNuggets count came down from about 50 to 0 this past week, time to get my act together.

Distance Fan- Awesome week! I was always taught to not answer a question with another question, but what would you be happy with for your first marathon? Off of some of your training recently I can definitely see sub-3:20, but given that it's your first you may want to be a little bit safer. Maybe start with the 3:25 group and move up slowly if you feel good after the half? (of course this advice/strategy may be changed if you are looking for a BQ time of some sort)

Kendo- Looking good! As for your question, what's been your personal experience with tapers? I am a pretty big advocate of a 7-10 day taper, so my 2nd to last week is usually still pretty high. (about 75-80% of my max weekly mileage for the cycle, in your case that would be 38-40). So I would recommend 35-40, but really I think depending on how you feel maybe 30-35 would be fine as well. The training is already done at this point anyways.

Lakerunner- Sorry to hear man. those days happen to the best of us, keep your head high and go get 'em in the next cycle.

HS_Runner_XC- Nice training this week. I wish I did more long runs/workouts like that when I was in HS.

Nop200- Nice workouts this week and solid race even without the spikes.

CMM268- You're even nailing your taper workouts! Definitely going to try to keep tabs on you next weekend if it works out with my race next weekend. If not, good luck!

(and to answer your question, I am pretty much running a tuneup race of some sort for the next 2 weeks and then tapering for a half on 11/1 that I am considering a "A" race)

Hereford- Nice HM off of not much (if at all) tapering, and you definitely still have plenty of time.

KBXC- You're definitely on fire kid. Keep up the great work.

Runnersfix- You're not kidding about taking the time to build up slowly. I wish I had more discipline, and I'll probably be reminded of that when I feel a bit beat up in December and need 1-2 down weeks. Nice progressions this week as well.

Bonham- Good to see you taking some well deserved rest. To answer your question, the course I ran was at about 6200 feet altitude so it's about 35-40s slower than a sea level course, and the surface/elevation change might have been worth another 15-20s. So I ran the equivalent of about a 16:10-16:20 5K at sea level. Definitely feel good with that as a fitness benchmark at this point.

Reed- Very nice workout on Tuesday. (and solid followup on Friday as well). This upcoming weekend is the 8K right? Good luck man.

Once and Future- Good luck man!

StevenJ- Nice work keeping building back up and getting into it.

(gotta run, more comments later)

yup GD, my goal race is saturday.

what do you guys think i should do for a taper?

my last 10 weeks have been:

74-70-80-80-87-80-81-81-79-71

i'm thinking of having about 60-65 total, including the long run following the race. maybe something like

M 8-9

T 10 w/ easy workout

W 6-7

Th 7-8

F 6

Sa 3+8k+2=10

Su 15

total 63-66

my typical weeks are mostly 9-10 mile runs with 15 on sunday with one or two doubles

Stone Cutter- haha!! I think you squeezed the last bit of luck out of those shorts Stone. Ever consider a pair of suspenders?:p. Seriously though, you done well to keep the effort up during that session and a strong week overall. One question I have been meaning to ask you for a while is about the pace of your easy runs. Is that the natural pace you fall into or do you treat easy runs more as recovery sessions to accommodate the high intensity of your schedule? Just curious as my easy runs are generally faster than my long runs and you and Pikachu- do it the other way around.

Pikachu- Nice week man! Is that a Lydiard type base plan? Are you going to keep the tempo's at aerobic threshold during this phase or will you be lowering them closer to Lactate threshold as you progress?

pewow- that's a sweet workout!! I agree, you're looking good for a sub-30. You're making some big gains over the last few weeks!

Slatzrio- Building up nicely and putting a lot of strength work. How long do you plan on building for?

Ghola- Well done on the race!! That sounds tough and a little isolated towards the end where a little support would be nice. You're definitely in PR shape judging by the workouts you've completed in this block. Way to go!! The results will come, you're putting yourself in the right positions.

Matthias- We all have down weeks man!! You'll bounce back! Hoping you recover well from the injury.

Xenonscreams- Congrats on the race Xenon!! You seem to be rounding into very good shape even without an ideal race week. Looks like the best is yet to come!!

TheGarbageDisposal- Good stuff Garbage! You look to be in a good position to burn up the roads come goal race when you are already in a lot better shape than this time last year. I'm sure you will be flying very soon.

Forcerunner- Best of luck next week! Time to reap the rewards of all your hard work. I usually like to do some HM pace work early in the week and a few short intervals about 3 days out on race week. Everyone's different but I like to blow off some of the cobweb's the day before with a few accelerations at the end of an easy run.

NP112- great week NP!! That's another monster long run at GP. I have to marvel at your discipline to do those sessions. Paced runs are always going to be difficult but give you as much mental as physical strength. Looking good!

Distance Fan- I definitely think you should go for the 3.20 group. I don't want to put a fear factor in you but the marathon is one MFing unforgiving distance and has a habit of breaking first timers. Overconfidence is always rife for a first time runner(myself included, 37 minute positive split in my first one). I know you are worried about leaving meat on the bone and having other commitments that may stop you from running another one in the future.

3:10 is completely out of the question in my book and a 3.15 would have you on the limit of your marathon potential right now. It's way too risky to even attempt running to your limit in your first marathon especially with only one marathon cycle under your belt. Your aerobic threshold is not going to be strong enough compared to your LT for your first marathon unless you have logged some big aerobic miles before. The cons of running 3.15 pace far outweigh the pros. Leaving 5 minutes out on the course by being conservative is a lot better than leaving 20+ minutes out there by being too aggressive and having having a horrible experience. A lot of guys with some very good experience are giving you good advice and I hope you take it.

"Only a fool learns from his own mistakes, the Wiseman learns from the mistakes of others"

More comments tomorrow. I'm beat!!

Sup yall! Long time read first time poster here!

Big race is Indianapolis Monumental marathon my hometown race

Going for sub 2:30!

My week - 69 miles

Big workouts -

Wednesday - 8x1 mile cutting down starting at 5:15 and finishing at 4:58. Felt good!

Sunday - 22 miles with 18 of it averaging 5:42. Got into an argument with my coach about this since he thought it was too hard for me but I was feeling it so I went with it.

Keep rockin' everyone. Peace out!

Some more comments:

Pikachu: I know you're a pretty badass runner, but it's amazing seeing you just tear into these workouts without much buildup. I definitely need a little bit more of your restraint on some of my easy runs, and hopefully it translates into workouts like yours!

pewow: Thursday workout looks pretty damn impressive. If you have trouble breaking 30 off of that, then I'd say you're definitely right in suspecting something's weird with that loop!

Slartzio: Good to see you putting in some good work. Keep it up and I'm sure you'll be able to nab a PR in a couple of months!

Ghola: I've ran some in Franklin park, but don't know the BAA half course that well. I can definitely believe that the second half is pretty tough based on the elevation profile. Good job!

xenonscreams: Glad to hear you were able to get over the injury scare to come up with a strong race. The fact that you were able to tie your time from last year despite that and the slow start on a tight course bodes well for coming races!

TheGarbageDisposal: Glad to hear that the 5k is at least at altitude and a little hilly. Otherwise it would be a little ridiculous going from ~18 min 5k to 70 min half in a month! Wednesday workout looks pretty strong, and I also liked the "20 easy" with no further comment.

Forcerunner: Obviously you're in good shape if you can tempo at that speed, but doing hill 200s in 32.x is rolling. Best of luck next week!

Np1112: I haven't done any road ultras, but I've done some trail ones in the past. I think your long run beats my best 50k. Since I've missed a lot over the past year plus, have you done any 50 mile or longer races yet?

Distance Fan: 150' in half a mile is a pretty beastly hill for a road race, especially if that isn't the entire hill! Looks like others have got the advice for the marathon covered, and I'm probably not the best source for that.

Kendo: For the lighting question, would getting a headlamp or some other lighting source be out of the quesiton? It might not be a perfect solution, but it might be one of the simplest since it sounds like the bike path would be pretty good (and at night you should have advanced warning from cyclists). The other thing would be maybe looking around on maps for neighborhoods with loops that look like they would be good for running and then scouting them out sometime.

Nop200: Sucks about the race on Tuesday. Not that I'd ever recommend leaving my keys in a closed car (one time is enough, thank you!), your car locks itself even when it's just sitting there and turned off?

cmm268: Good luck with the taper! Workouts look solid but not too intense, which is probably just about right for this time.

Hereford: Good job on the half. You're still almost two months out from the marathon, so I think it's probably reasonable not to be completely confident you can hold the pace yet. There's still many weeks for the adaptations from the past weeks of training to fully kick in, and several more weeks of hard training to put in before the taper!

KBXC: That course must be something else for the course record to be 17:51! Congrats on the record!

Runnersfix: Ummm... closing a run in 5:09 doesn't count as a workout? Not even a little bit?

reed: Congrats on the PR. Even if it's only technically one, it came at the end of a pretty tough workout on a less than ideal surface! And improving significantly on a past workout like that is a good sign.

Illinoisphotographer: Sounds like an interesting variety on Sunday. How'd the blind runner do?

BlakeDaLively in Indy: Welcome to the thread! Those workouts look pretty beastly. In particular, doing 18 miles at about goal pace is pretty insane! Just make sure not to do anything like that again in the coming weeks before the race!

Pewow: You CAN break 30.

Netwerk errer: Just two weeks left: A couple off or easy days now won't hurt much – get better soon! Actually I have a coach and I don't know if it's really Lydiard. But I will be trying to hit close to goal marathon pace from January onome will be shorter and faster. PR pace is around 5:15, so I sweat if I just think of that right now :D

Slartzio: You hit your goal pretty well (33 miles)... Keep at it!

Ghola: GREAT half! I am not sure if I would be that much faster right now :-)

Matthias: Your intervall sessions impress me. I hope you get better soon!

Xenonscreams: Sounds like a smart race – well done!

Garbage Disposal: Haha, you seem to hit 100+ miles like it's nothing. Good week (and I guess at altitude, too)!

Forcerunner: Good luck with tha half – seems like you are VERY well prepared.

NP1112: Your long runs impress me on and on again... Good luck with the taper... You are in great shape! My easy runs are pretty hilly in the forest. My intervalls, tempos, long runs usually on the road and pretty flat – but not pancake flat.

Distance fan: I have no clue in what kind of shape you are in as I don't know your past training – just my 0.02.: When in doubt go out a little slower. When you are inexperienced a marathon can be a b*tch of a run when you go out too fast.

Kendo: Do you have no loop where there are no crossings? That sucks... I understand you!

Lakerunner: Bad races happen – for everyone. Analyze it – and then move on :-)

HS-Runner_XC: "Feel confident going into championship xc season" – Good. Much outcome depends on confidence!!

NOP 200: You have the speed for sub 17 – if you don't make it you just need some more strength IMHO:

cmm268: 86 miles taper week – and dayly planks... I like :D In no way I can run sub 30 (10k?) right now. Sub 4:50 pace feels too rough right now. But I will get back!!!

Hereford: When the 13.1 felt good I think you have a realistic shot of SMASHING 2.50.

KBXC: 10 miles @ 6:31 the day after a meet/CR... Not too shabby ;-)

Runnersfix: Thanks for the kind words... Yeah, I try to be patient – you seem to be patient as well. I think it will pay off! My PRs are 14:0x, around 29:30, 1:04:xx and 2:17:xx – I have long ways to go back there in the next weeks. But I love the grind... I just wanna attack my running one more time and see what I can do :-)

Bonham: Congrats on your PR and sub 2:40. Enjoy the downtime!

Reed: mile PR in training... That would me my dream :D

Once and future: Good luck this week man!

StevenJ: I like your idea with just timing the runs. I am a GPS addict and think your approach has some upsides with recovery. I really think it could be beneficial to run faster on my easy days - but I seem to get too wiped out. I am just not a "training champion" although it freaks me out having to run with the girls or alone and gettin' my @ss handed on those runs from much slower guys :D

Illinoisphotographer: Haha, 4.55 first mile... Chasin' those big guns – I am sure it was fun! ;-)

reed: haha, I hate long runs the day after races – but go 4 it if you like it!

Blake...: The 8 x mile w/o seems pretty strong!!

I hope I got everyone ;-)

Garbage: To answer your question I would be satisfied running under 3:30. I would be happy if I feel I got most (not all) out of my body in the first one (3:20?)

So I checked again the pace groups on the IMM website to see if they had identified the pacers and any pacing strategy they might employ, and it looks like 3:20 group for canned, contrary to the email I had from the race director from January.

Weighing all this with the good advice I've received, right now my plan is to go with the 3:25 group until at least 18, and see how I'm doing. This is assuming decent weather. I think this is probably my best strategy even if the 3:20 group makes at the expo. I wish I had a 3:22:30 group ;). But all joking aside I understand that a lot of pace groups are ahead of schedule anyway, and a fast 3:25 would be better than a fast 3:20 for me.

I'd rather run 3:23 - 3:27 than 3:50, which is probably a possibility if I went for a 3:15. Nothing stopping me from running another marathon next year (or the year after) if my body holds together. My mileage previous to this cycle was not high (mid to upper 30s) so I don't start from a huge base of mileage by any stretch.

I've got to beat Oprah and George W. Bush!

Goal race: Columbus Marathon, October 19th

Goal: 2:35

Mon - 10mi AM, 5mi PM

Tue - 20 min up, 2 X 15 min tempo w/3 min rest (5:41/mile avg), 6 X 1 min hard/1 min easy on grass, 20 down (13mi total), 5.4mi PM

Wed - 9mi AM, 6.4mi PM

Thurs - 10mi

Fri - 6.3mi including 6 X 30s hard/60s easy

Sat - 3.2mi AM, XC race: 25 min up, 6k in 22:01, 25 min down

Sun - 15mi (6:54 avg pace)

Total week: 93.3 miles

Taper week number one comes to an end. Against my better judgement, I ran a cross country race on Saturday. I am planning on racing some XC in November and wanted to get a feel for racing on grass, so I jumped in an open cross country race. I went in with very low expectations but still came away pretty disappointed. I achieved my number one goal of not getting hurt, but my race was terrible. I had a rough time running on the grass after months of road work; I just wasn't ready. Felt better after Sunday's run though, the legs were a bit fatigued from running on grass but I managed an ok pace without really pushing. Onward to Columbus!

Stone Cutter - Very entertaining story haha. Hopefully you can find some suitable new shorts! Thank you! I'm going to try to relax the first few miles and try to roll hard to the finish.

Pikachu - Very nice week! You're going to come back into great shape very quick. Thanks!

Pewow - Based on Thursday I would say you should be sub30 easy.

Netwerk - Sorry to hear about the ankle, hopefully it'll heal quickly! Thank you! I did a light workout this morning and I'll try and get rid of the cobwebs on Friday and Saturday haha.

Slartzio - Nice Workout on Thursday! I like doing some harder intervals after tempos as well.

Ghola - Nice race!

Matthias - I like the K workout! Hopefully your calf gets better.

Xenon - Solid week. Good luck next weekend.

Garbage Disposal - Very nice week. Gotta love tripling haha. Thank you!

NP1112 - Very nice Sunday run! Recovering from that is going to be nice haha. I use Garmin for GPS, and checked it with gmaps. Thanks!

Distance Fan - The hills sound rough, but very nice pace!

Kendo - Nice week. I share your pain with unlit paths. It's either the roads or wait until it's light enough to run on the bikepath. For the mileage, I wouldn't be bound to super strict numbers, rather feel it out when then time comes. You know your body better than a book does!

Lakerunner - I had electrolyte issues in high school and it sounds very similar.

HSXC - Sounds like you're well on track to run under 17!

Nop200 - Unlucky with the keys, but one race does not a season make. Best of luck with your upcoming races!

Cmm268 - Yep I'll be in the front corral so hopefully we can bump into each other. It's looking like 40 degrees with no wind, very nice. Based on those 800s it looks like you're ready!

Hereford - Nice Run on Sunday. If you're able to do that with quality you had during the week you're well on your way for CIM. and Thanks!

KBXC - Nice 800 session. Good to see you're confident in sub 16!

Runnersfix - Nice week again. What sort of MP workouts do you have queued up?

Bonham - Enjoy the recovery!

Reed - Solid week! Nice mile at the end! For a taper, I'm not a huge fan of cutting back a ton because it makes me feel sluggish, but your plan looks solid.

Once and Future - True cross country races like that sound like so much fun! A lot of American courses have turned into "tracks on grass"

StevenJ - Nice long run! Great time on feet. I like doing hills in place of a lot of stuff on the track, especially if I'm racing on the roads. They make you strong!

Illinois - Haha did you keep up with Bekele like you wrote about in that thread? Solid 8x400 workout.

BlakeinIndy - Nice week! If you can run those workouts I'd say you can blow 2:30 away easy.

Triple Zero - Nice week. The transition back to grass is always a rough one. Cmm268 and I will see you in Cbus!

Naw, didn't even get close to Bekele, except for the warmup. I was like 4 rows back and by the time I got clear about 200 yards in, they already had 40 yards on me. I just stayed with the Hanson-Brooks crew through the first mile.

Bonham: thanks! Next week will be the real tough one. Trying to stay sane haha.

Reed: way to PR in a workout and on uneven surface. You're getting into shape fast! I typically go pretty easy the 3 days before a race. Maybe something like 8-6-4? You know your body best.

Once: stay sane during the taper. You got this! Was the Tuesday 5k a club event? Or is it common to have weekday races where you are?

Runfix: gotcha. That is not too bad. I will have to get back to you on where he moved to. He just got settled in and I can't remember right now haha

StevenJ: great week. Have you always trained in minutes? Good call on the hills. Many benefits to those. I have not raced any official ultras. Just lots of long runs this cycle. Peaked at 45 and averaged 30.

Illinois: pancakes were great because I had a gift card, free is always better. It's not that bad going longer than a marathon. You already do longer runs than 99% of people.

Garbage: recount came in at 103.1 still haha

Netwerk: thanks. Definitely glad this was the last really long run. Ready to taper!

Pikachu: thanks! Gotcha. I guess flat and hill can be a relative term. It is hard trying to find good hills in the Indianapolis area.

Force: I already feel better than after my last long run. But still taking things very easy and slow. Since this is a taper week now.

Goal: Get healthy

Goal: 2014 miles for the year

M:3 mi easy

T:4 mi easy

W:3 mi easy

T:4 mi easy

F:4.5 mi easy

S:6 mi easy + disc golf

S:0 went to the Bills/Patriots game

Weekly: 24.5 miles

YTD: 1548 miles

Talked to a physical therapist to see if I can do anything else to speed along recovery of my plantar fasciitis. Good news is that I'm doing all right things, bad news is that it just takes time, oh well.

NP1112: Hilly means about 800 feet up and down on most of my 10 milers... "Flat" means about 200 - 300 foot of climbing total on my tempo run loops per 10 miles. I could run flatter but I like not to do too many loops if not necessary - call me a freakin' wimp! ;-)

xenonscreams - good effort in the xc race despite the pains.

garbagedisposal - i imagine a 17:11 5K was not a hard effort for someone of your ability!

forcerunner - very good week. looking great for your half.

np1112 - solid long run and fartlek sessions!

lakerunner - hard luck in the marathon man. stay positive and never give up reaching that goal!

nop200 - good effort in the race!

cmm268 - strong finish to the 800s session. time to see if all those 100 mile weeks have payed off...

hereford - 2 months is still a while to gain that extra fitness you require. i wouldn't worry...

kbxc - is that 3 xc wins on the spin? you're flying!

runnersfix - nice first week. what is your goal for the marathon?

bonham - you've earned that easy week... plenty more to come from you my friend.

reed - wicked last mile on that workout!

once and future - good effort in the xc race. i missed our first race on Saturday cos of my calf. i was gutted! good luck next week as well!

stevenj - good race/tempo!

ilinoisphotographer - yes the plan was to get progressively faster throughout the workout, but not by much each rep as i wanted to keep it at tempo effort. the last k hard is a sort of 'race simulation' thing i guess

Sorry I've been absent this year but I figured since its now only a few weeks before Philly I'll post from now until then. I honestly haven't even been keeping a running log this year but have been training hard but now run easier on easy days, I know shocking for those that know me.

Goal: Sub 3 hours in Philly

Mon- 10.25 miles (7:45/mile)

Tues- 2 1/4 warmup. 5 1/4 tempo @ 6:21/mile 4+ miles cooldown (8:00/mile)

Wed- 16 miles (7:35/mile)

Thur- Off

Fri- 8.25 miles (7:50/mile)

Sat- 10 miles, 9 @ MP (was supposed to be 8) avg 6:44/mile- actually went slightly faster but as Stone Cutter posted, it was raining and my GPS lost mileage at some point.

I'll try to post weekly until Philly, note that I'm using the NYC Marathon 3 weeks out as my final real long run in the training cycle.

Sun- 8.5 miles @ 7:45/mile

Total mileage 64.5

Np1112: I haven't always trained in minutes, but I'd say I've pretty much done it since I've been out of college (or maybe when I was still in college but in a season I wasn't running competitively). There's probably a few factors that go into it.

1) Simplicity. I only need running stuff and a watch (or if I'm going really bare bones, a clock near my starting and ending location) to keep track of it. I don't have to worry about mapping my routes, or wearing a GPS and maintaining a connection, or anything like that.

2) I like exploring. If I'm in an exploring mood, I don't really worry about pace or distance, but just discovering new places or new link-ups between places I'm already familiar with. This happens less where I am now than it would in the Berkshires or the Finger Lakes, but it was definitely a factor in me switching from miles.

3) I feel like it gives a better picture of my level of training for comparing in-shape me vs. out-of-shape me. Or maybe it just frees me from doing more depressing comparisons to in-shape me. In addition to being more fitness-neutral I think it's also more weather neutral. If it's really hot and humid or if there's snow I might do the same amount of minutes but somewhat fewer miles.

This isn't to say I don't ever care about the pace of my runs. Just that most of the time I care more about running by feel and enjoying my running rather than tracking every last detail of my training.

Page one Comments (more to come if i have time):

Stone: I had that happen to me a couple years ago. I had a red pair of shorts and the elastic was pretty much gone. I kept them around as a backup pair to use when i didn't have anything clean. Luckily for me I had my hrm chest strap on and I jimmied it up to cinch my shorts. Sadly the shorts are no longer with me, not worth the trouble.

Pikachu: Solid week. Don't worry about the easy pace. As long as the run feels easy the pace doesn't matter. Floating sounds nice...

pewow: i think you got sub 30 in you. Good luck

Netwerk: That happened to my father 30+ years ago. Driver was on his way home and ran him right off the road into a ditch. All because the driver was in a rush to get home with his pizza. My father ended up with a pretty bad sprain and never really ran much again (he does bike). Fortunately, the driver noticed what he had done and gave my father a ride home, but didn't get any of the pizza. Anyway, hope you have a speedy recovery.

Ghola: Solid race. Maybe you were not completely recovered from the 1600 repeats early in the week and left you a little flat toward the end of the race.

ForceRunner: good luck this weekend.

Distance Fan: I would target 3:20-3:25. Stay with the pace group till at least 18 mile mark and then if you feel good you can break away.

Kendo: A taper week for me is usually 6-6-4-off-4-RACE-recovery. All easy effort, maybe some strides thrown in early in the week.

Lakerunner: Sorry for the disappointing race. I wish I had some advice, but it just sounds like a sever cramp at an inopportune time.

Netwerk Errer wrote:

Stone Cutter- One question I have been meaning to ask you for a while is about the pace of your easy runs. Is that the natural pace you fall into or do you treat easy runs more as recovery sessions to accommodate the high intensity of your schedule? Just curious as my easy runs are generally faster than my long runs and you and Pikachu- do it the other way around.

I get asked about my easy run pace a lot by my training partners, so you certainly aren't the first. Yes, believe it or not, that is the natural pace I fall into. My first mile is usually anywhere from 8:15-9:00 depending on how I am feeling, and then I usually end up running about 7:45-8:00/mi from there, sometimes picking it up at the end of the run.

I don't have a set "easy" pace or "recovery" pace, per se. I just run whatever feels "easy" and usually it ends up around 8:00/mi - sometimes slower especially if it's an early morning run after a workout the day before.

My long runs, on the other hand, I try to stay within a certain range of time (90-95% of MP), or roughly 6:45-7:05/mi. But usually that's only when I am in HM or marathon training, like this cycle. Otherwise, I give myself much greater "freedom" of pace on long runs.