I run 100miles a week but cant break 18.30 for 5kms,

john9090 wrote:

If I do 10x100m twice a week at 95%? After a run good? I hate doing reps. I hate stopping and starting.

It's called strides. After an easy run 2-3 days a week do up to 10 100m runs around 800-1500 pace with good relaxed form. The focus is on form, not running fast. For recovery just lightly jog around for 30-40 seconds. Personally, when I do strides I only do 4. But you can do more if you want.

As for workouts, what you're doing is bad.

I'd recommend doing 2 workouts a week, each workout is only 2-3 miles worth of intervals, but its at 5k pace. One of those days is shorter intervals like 200s and 400s with 200m recovery, so that'd be 16-24x200 in 42 and 8-12x400 in 85(85 400 pace = 17:42 5k). Then the other workout is longer reps at 5k pace, so 800s and 1200s with half distance recovery jog. So this would be 4-6x800 in 2:50 and 3-4x1200 in 4:15.

You have a base, so do the speed for 2-3 months then a 2 week taper and you'll be good. On the days you don't feel good, do 2 miles of intervals; on the days you feel good, do 3 miles of intervals. Pretty simple. Do the shorter reps on Tuesday, the longer reps on Thursday or Friday. If you're racing, don't do the longer reps session that week so you're fresh for the race.

As far as periodization goes, do 2-3 months of just mileage and tempos, then 2-3 months of speed, a 2 week taper, and 2 weeks off, and repeat.

I don't care if you don't like doing repeats. Guess what? I don't either. Most people don't. But its part of the puzzle. There's no panacea in running. There's a bunch of little things you gotta do and when every piece is in order, you're ready to run fast. Do that speed work and I guarantee you'll improve drastically at 5k. You'll probably break 18 in a month or 2 if you're not burnt out right now.

why are you running 100 mpw? Why on earth would you do that if you aren't training for a marathon?

In my mind any man who is not over weight, is 35 years or younger and has no health issues has the potential to run 15 high to 16 low for 5km.....I really do believe that. Now it takes some sound training but it can be done.

I'll give a little background on myself and running just mileage, it might help the OP, everyone else wouldn't really need to follow along

I started running rather late, 22, and grew up playing hockey and did so in University, after that I had no sport to play at a high level and started to jog as part of my workout routine. I soon started enjoying running more then lifting weights and entered a local 5km. I ran 20:30 at 6'1" 195 lb's. I got beat by a ton of girls and was embarrassed but had some fun.

I decided to buy a garmin and started running every day. I lost all of my muscle mass and whatever fatty tissue I had and 5 months later I was running 16:30 for 5km, weighing 145lb's. I did no workouts but just ran volume because I loved it. I was running 85 miles/week consistently with a long run in there.

4 years later running is one of my passions, I'm not a true Elite (I have a full time job that's most important) but I'm decent, sponsored by saucony and running 14's for 5km on the track, 31 flat for 10km on the roads. The plan is to get under 30 for 10km next spring then start improving my strength and moving up to the half and eventually the marathon.

Miles are important but not everything. I run 130/week in my base phase with a tempo run and some long intervals like 2 mile repeats each week, during the racing season I'm much lower but doing 3 sessions a week.

For instance last week I did,

Q1 - 8X400m in 65 seconds off 60 seconds recovery then 8X1minute hills,

Q2 - 2X20 minutes at half Marathon pace (5:12/mile)

Q3 - 5X2km off 400m jog starting at 6:10 and working down to 5:50.

What I'm trying to point out is that if your new, volume alone can get you better, but a faster way to develop is a structured plan of attack with workouts tailored to your goal race.

Don't think you will be stuck at 18:30 forever, I'm sure you can eventually get to running 15-16minutes for 5km.

NUFCrichard wrote:

and 2% body fat?

As a reference:

http://teaminsaneresults.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Men-Body-Fat.jpg

troll.

This is a better reference for runners.

drop your mileage and do more Vo2 work

Hi ,

Maybe the reason cos you dont run faster than 3'42"/km

in a 5 km race is that you do a huge amount of Km/week

100 miles /160 KM !!!!

Or you want to do the ultras or marathons or is better to leave those amount of Km to professional top runners.

With 70 - 90 km per week you can reach your goal.

you run a 3000 at 3'30" /km , thats should be near your VO2max.

So I would suggest to do:

easy run at 4'30" - 5' /km, you already do 16 km at 4'/km that shuold be near your actual half Marathon pace.i would do

2 quality work per week like 10x 400 meters in 1'20/ 1'22 rec.1' or

12 x200 in 38" rec 1'

6- 8 x1000 in 3'32- 3'35' rec 2'

3x2000 in 7'15- 7'18" rec 3'

You need speed , you need to became familiar with pace like 3'30" , 3'35" /km.

Cos if you are able to do 100 miles per week and tempo runs of 10 miles at 4'/km ,endurance is not your problem.

So in my opinion you just need to reduce km/week

and add works for speed and work around vo2max and lactate threshold.

You say that you do fartlek 25/1/1 !! That's a workout

that every thursday at 9 0clock hundreds of Kenians do it in Iten!!

I would do 15/1/1 and your goal should be to cover 300 m in the minute fast thats 3'20"/km .while minute slow pace 4'30" -5' /km.. When you will be able to

do those 300 m or more for all the 15 minutes fast. You will see that you ll break 18'30

in the 5 k

All the best

Dane, where you been brah?

the problem is you're starving yourself. At 2% bodyfat, when you run your body is going into survival mode, instead of training mode. You need to put on a few lbs and get up to 4%. Even at 4% you'd have to make sure you're eating enough, but that should lead to some improvements.

Talent plays a huge roll I can normally get back into 15-16 min shape for 5ks with some decent training and only 40mpw. I know guys much more talented than myself who can start back and run that fast almost immediately. I have run a few 5ks out of shape and can normally drop a 18:00 off of hardly any running. The point is I enjoy training b/c I like to set PRs and base everything off my own PRs not other runners times. Also if you're running that much you should take up longer distance races. If you are after 5k prs drop the mileage and focus on more track workouts.

I love it when people say that everyone should be able to run 15 minutes 5ks if they are healthy. What a bunch of BS!

Obvious troll.

I ran 9:54 3200 my sophomore year of high school.

That summer I ran 10 x +100mpw

My PBs for the next year were 9:06 3000 and 4:08 1500. I realized then I was not that talented. I am glad I got it out of the way early. I didn't get much better in college 8:44/14:58/3:59

For almost all runners, and I mean 99.99%, 40-80 mpw is plenty. You will not get better results with more mileage.

Dbill wrote:

No one cares what you hate. Do you want to be good at the 5k or not?

Hahahahahaha this ^^^^^

Do you have horrible form? I know a guy with a good runner's build who is slow because he runs super goofy.

ok so this morning i went out and done a 5km time trial flat out this is what i got

km splits

3.40

3.44

3.43

3.49

3.44

18.38

i really tried hard to push the pace and stay relaxed. i know it was first thing in the morning and by myself.

i will try and add some speed work this week.

should i go out this afternoon and do 200meters flatout? x 10?

john9090 wrote:

i really tried hard to push the pace and stay relaxed. i know it was first thing in the morning and by myself.

i will try and add some speed work this week.

should i go out this afternoon and do 200meters flatout? x 10?

Do 2 workouts a week at 5k pace. 2-3 miles of volume with half distance jogging recovery. Anything from 200-1200m. Be creative.

Dr. Pepper wrote:

Do some type of speed every day (may be something as simple as 8 * 15 seconds on the 1:00 during a run). One day of dedicated interval work - get used to running faster. Build up to 20*200 with a 200 jog -run them at mile pace. At 100 miles a week, everything else should fall into place.

This is one of the things about LR that is bad: generalized advice given to make the poster feel better/smarter.

He's running 100mpw and he has yet to break 18:30, do you think he is ready to "Do some type of speed every day"?

Do you think that he could run 20x200 w/200j when he has "only" run 18:30? That is 20 laps of the track? YES, I realize he is running 100mpw or so he says, but I bet it is at 8:00-9:00 pace.

He's not ready for those kind of workouts. I was ready for that when I could run 5:00 or under for 1600m. Even at mile pace that workout will crush most runners at his level.

Additionally, he doesn't need "speed" training to run faster than 18:30, he needs VO2max training. Most simply this is best done as 2-4 min intervals at about 4k race pace. John Kellogg has a brilliant article on it on this site.

Not even really sure he needs VO2max training if he is that slim and is still running 18:30. Not everyone needs intervals. The longer the event and the slower you are the less you "need" them. But I guess if he hasn't gotten faster with his current regimen he should try the classic 5k training.

800s, 1200s, 600s , 1000s. You can do 3-5 x 1600m but do them slower at 5k pace or if you do a lot, 8k pace. We used to do classic HR-recovery intervals :

Run the reps at whatever pace you could race 4 X the rep dist (i.e. 800 rep at 3200 pace), then rest until HR drops to 120. It is self-regulating and keeps the pressure on MAXIMUM O2 UPTAKE.

I.E.-

An 18:30 5ker is at 3:42 pace per 1000m. So it follows that he could run 3:35-3:38 for a 4k race.

So if he is doing 1k reps, do them at 3:38 to start and then "squeeze them down" to 3:35 and then a little faster for the last 1-2.

6 X 1k at 3:38, 3:38, 3:36, 3:36, 3:34, 3:32 rest until HR drops to 120, or jog a 400 or 500m.

If you aren't recovering enough to keep the pace ... you aren't in that shape you thought you were.

And keep in mind, it is not the only way, or the best way, it is just ONE WAY.

hot.. cold.. wrote:

Talent plays a huge roll I can normally get back into 15-16 min shape for 5ks with some decent training and only 40mpw. I know guys much more talented than myself who can start back and run that fast almost immediately. I have run a few 5ks out of shape and can normally drop a 18:00 off of hardly any running. The point is I enjoy training b/c I like to set PRs and base everything off my own PRs not other runners times. Also if you're running that much you should take up longer distance races. If you are after 5k prs drop the mileage and focus on more track workouts.

Maybe there is a bakery near him where he could buy this huge roll?