To fix education in the United States, we need to spend more money on it

If you eliminate the test scores of blacks and Hispanics, US students score higher than almost every other country in the world. Even though teachers unions are a joke, they aren't the issue. More money isn't the answer. The problems in the US education system aren't even "problems." They are the natural result of the genetic differences between races.

Hingle McCringleberry wrote:

Well Now That You Mention It wrote:

Actually, it pretty much does. It has been pretty well documented that start times around 9 result in superior performance for high school kids when compared to start times around 7.

I'd love to see some of your documentation. Starting school later just bumps everything back an hour or two. It doesn't magically add hours to the day.

Yes, it bumps the SCHOOL DAY back, not every aspect of the day. Presumably the kids will still go to bed at the same time but will be able to get an extra of hour or two of sleep.

math teacher/weed smoker wrote:

Keep summer break wrote:

I don't agree with the idea of getting rid of summer vacation completely. Summer break provides motivated students with the opportunity to engage in enriching activities outside of the classroom. Volunteering, working, attending summer camps at universities, and traveling can all be just as meaningful as formal education. I wouldn't want to eliminate those opportunities.

If you're in school all year, your mind is formed according to one single institution's ideas. I think it's necessary to get out of the classroom and get some other perspectives.

There could be a way to provide those opportunities to students who are highly motivated while also eliminating summer vacation. Make summer programs like that merit-based for motivated/high achieving students. If they've acquired the necessary skills for promotion to the next grade, allow them to take a sabbatical of sorts.

In this scenario, the issue still exists that you're giving a single institution too much influence over a kid's development. If a summer break is only granted as a sabbatical, will the school be in charge of deciding what summer activities are allowable?

I don't want 99% of my kid's non-parental adult influence to come from a single source. I want him to be able to explore on his own without needing the state's consent. I want him to be able to decide that he's interested in medicine as a possible career, and then spend his summer going to a related summer camp and volunteering at the local hospital, not because the school let him as some special exception, but just because he wants to.

It isn't the teachers, facilities, and it definitely isn't that they are not getting enuoug money.

It is about PARENTS!!! PERIOD!!

Show me a parent who isn't involved in their childs school, ill how you a crappy student.

Alternatively, show me a child who has a parent who is very involved with their kids eduction, ill show you a great student!

IT IS THAT SIMPLE!

All of you saying we need more money blah blah, do go the school and check out the bad students, see how much time their parents spend with their kids to make sure they do homework, study for tests etc.

IT IS THE PARENTS! And yes, race and culture proves this over and over again...

The USA already spends more per student than most other developed countries, and starting teacher salaries are about the same in the USA as they are in Europe and other places. It would seem that simply throwing more money their way would be a waste. We are already spending way more than most other countries, but with worse results? Why?

Get rid of teachers unions. Make it easier to fire bad and lazy teachers, and easier to promote and give higher wages to good teachers. Those are a two first good steps that should cost nothing monetarily. Simply throwing more money at the program won't work. We've been trying that for the last 40 years.

rocky road wrote:

Hingle McCringleberry wrote:

I'd love to see some of your documentation. Starting school later just bumps everything back an hour or two. It doesn't magically add hours to the day.

Yes, it bumps the SCHOOL DAY back, not every aspect of the day. Presumably the kids will still go to bed at the same time but will be able to get an extra of hour or two of sleep.

Of course it bumps every aspect of the day. Do you have any idea what happens after school and before bed? The kids will still have extra curricular activities, homework, and maybe a bit of down time. Some will have tutoring or religious classes. In other words, they will still need the same amount of time they have now and will get the same amount if sleep. A delayed start of the school day causes problems (sports in the dark, etc.) rather than solve them.

Ditch HS sports, or stop spending so much money on them. The local HS (and many others in the area) are sprawling athletics campuses with a school attached. Ex. giant stadium, all weather tracks, artificial turf football/soccer fields, baseball fields, basketball gym with stands, giant LED signs. I went to college in the mid/late 80s - the high schools in the area have better facilities than we had in college.

Plenty of money is being spent on "education" but it is being pi$$ed down the toilet and wasted.

Hingle McCringleberry wrote:

rocky road wrote:

Yes, it bumps the SCHOOL DAY back, not every aspect of the day. Presumably the kids will still go to bed at the same time but will be able to get an extra of hour or two of sleep.

Of course it bumps every aspect of the day. Do you have any idea what happens after school and before bed? The kids will still have extra curricular activities, homework, and maybe a bit of down time. Some will have tutoring or religious classes. In other words, they will still need the same amount of time they have now and will get the same amount if sleep. A delayed start of the school day causes problems (sports in the dark, etc.) rather than solve them.

Are you really that stupid or is this just some sort of act. Do you really believe that it is homework, sports teams and religious classes that keep high school kids up until 1 am? All of that is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT. HS kids stay up to the wee hours of the morning regardless of (and in no way because of) any of this. And pushing back the start of school for an hour or two does indeed result in an hour or two of additional sleep.

Proud Obama Voter wrote:

It's a shame that we spend more on the military than on education. We need to pay teachers more, give kids better textbooks and better facilities.

I always understood that the US spent more per pupil in your public schools than virtually any other of the world’s advanced nations.

But got poor results in international tests - countries spending much less, getting better results.

I understand the drop-out rate amongst the minorities is quite high as well.

Although I forgot - in the latest intake figures, white students are in the minority - so that should read, the drop-out rate amongst the ‘majorities.’

Hingle McCringleberry wrote:

Well Now That You Mention It wrote:

Actually, it pretty much does. It has been pretty well documented that start times around 9 result in superior performance for high school kids when compared to start times around 7.

I'd love to see some of your documentation. Starting school later just bumps everything back an hour or two. It doesn't magically add hours to the day.

Was that really that difficult?

Oh, and here's a hint for you - saying moronic things about "magically..." doesn't really add to your credibility. It just makes you look like a moron.

Joe Binks wrote:

I always understood that the US spent more per pupil in your public schools than virtually any other of the world’s advanced nations.

But got poor results in international tests - countries spending much less, getting better results.

I understand the drop-out rate amongst the minorities is quite high as well.

Although I forgot - in the latest intake figures, white students are in the minority - so that should read, the drop-out rate amongst the ‘majorities.’

"amongst the 'majorities'"?!? So, there are multiple majorities here, huh? I bet you were a great runner - always giving it 250%!

And guess what those same students will do if they know school is starting later? Of course they will stay up even later.

Those who've pointed out the importance of parental involvement are right on the money. Why are your kids staying up until 1 AM if it's not for a legitimate reason? Tell them it's lights out at 10 and set the alarm for 6. How hard is that? There's no need to disrupt extra-curricular activities, or other important after school activities.

OK, so I see that you really are that stupid and it wasn't just an act.

My condolences.

Sleep is a biological function, and people have different sleeping patterns at different ages. It's natural for kids to fall asleep later and wake up later, just as it's natural for adults to wake up earlier.

When I was in high school, pulling myself out of bed at 6am for a morning run was a chore. At 29, I couldn't sleep past 6 if I wanted to. It's not because I've become more disciplined. It's because sleep patterns change with age.

Well Now That You Mention It wrote:

Hingle McCringleberry wrote:

I'd love to see some of your documentation. Starting school later just bumps everything back an hour or two. It doesn't magically add hours to the day.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/teens-need-later-start-to-school-day-doctors-group-says-1408939263

Was that really that difficult?

Oh, and here's a hint for you - saying moronic things about "magically..." doesn't really add to your credibility. It just makes you look like a moron.

Not difficult, but useless. So others share your opinion and there's a hint of some research. Got anything worthwhile?

As for looking like a moron, your changing names from post to post would seem to qualify you.

Keep summer break wrote:

Sleep is a biological function, and people have different sleeping patterns at different ages. It's natural for kids to fall asleep later and wake up later, just as it's natural for adults to wake up earlier.

When I was in high school, pulling myself out of bed at 6am for a morning run was a chore. At 29, I couldn't sleep past 6 if I wanted to. It's not because I've become more disciplined. It's because sleep patterns change with age.

What time did you go to bed in high school? At 29?

R U R U Really? wrote:

Hingle McCringleberry wrote:

And guess what those same students will do if they know school is starting later? Of course they will stay up even later.

Those who've pointed out the importance of parental involvement are right on the money. Why are your kids staying up until 1 AM if it's not for a legitimate reason? Tell them it's lights out at 10 and set the alarm for 6. How hard is that? There's no need to disrupt extra-curricular activities, or other important after school activities.

OK, so I see that you really are that stupid and it wasn't just an act.

My condolences.

Insults and an inability to counter an argument are the signs of someone without a leg to stand on. I accept your surrender.

Are You........... wrote:

we need better education here in the US but any money should be spent on a longer school day. More learning, more supervised time doing school work and less time sitting at home playing video games. Cutting back summer vacations to somewhere between 30 and 60 days. The first month of the school year for most kids is relearning from previous year. The US has the shortest school year in developed world. One hour of mandatory physical education where real exercise takes place. Think the need for this is self evident.

Lastly far more vocational skills training. Not everyone needs to go to college but real work skills are in demand and in our current corporate world future employees have to come with the skills. Corporations are not going to teach anyone anything.

Wow pal, where'd you go to school?

OK- the problem is NOT schools, it's families, first and foremost. The LACK of family for most kids.

So your solution to playing less video games is to keep them away from home and in school?

You are an idiot.

We need more quality family life for the kids failing.

At my school, 90+% of the kids are successful. We have kids ranked outside of the top 50 out of 200 going to Ivy League schools.

The reason? They come from intact, close knit families with involved parents.

College educated parents with good jobs who lead by example.

And, may I add? A lot of really hotttt mothers who take real good care of themselves.

You are the picture of what is wrong in the US right now. I am sure you could not find your way out of a room that had four doors that were all wide open.

No kidding kids in your neighborhood do well. You are all rich and have the means to be there with a parent home all the time to help. But most of The US is not that fortunate. Yeah there are stupid people that do not have a clue how to raise children or are working two jobs to keep a roof over their heads and feed their families or a million other reasons that the family circumstances are not good.

Maybe if you thought about anything other than your sheltered little life you could help make the world a better place.

You are the picture of what is wrong in the US.

By the way dick I went to an Ivy school as did all three of my children. They are all currently working on professional degrees that they pay for themselves. I grew up in a nicer place than where you live now and all 562 of my high school class went to college.

Get out of your hole, see the world and find out that you don't know everything and that just because it works where you are doesn't mean it is the best option.