HADD'S Approach To Distance Running

I remember we did a bunch of 400s the week before districts (on a Monday) then we ran county meet (I ran like crap and the course was 2 miles of SAND!) and then a meet Saturday (ran better but still horrible)

If I remember, the week of the race (which was on a Thursday) we did some sort of vo2max intervals and then took it easy the 2 days before the race. I then ran 16:50 on the fast course and the weather was much nicer (drier) that morning (than usual)

I should be way faster now since I ran 16:43 two weeks ago off virtually little speed, mostly base. No way in hell could I have done the tempo I did yesterday.

Sub16_5k wrote:Thank you for the long reply,

I understand, but what about HADD's phase 2A? I want to peak for a 5k November 27, and December 9.

The particulars of his Phase 2 aren't nearly as significant as executing workouts preparing you for your races. You've got to incorporate race-like running in order to reach your desired results. Good, bad or ugly, training is nothing more than race prep, or it ain't really "training."

Hadd focused more on the physiological components (primarily raising your LT and pushing the curve to the right, and lactate buffering), and he based on your "type" (slow-twitchers vs fast-twitchers). But we know it's the specificity (race-pace workouts) that tends to matter most late in the build-up, so long as it falls within acceptable physiological restrictions. And this comes back to the base (thus my earlier tome about first reaching aerobic plateaus). Think general -> specific. 'General' takes forever; 'specific' not quite as long.

Malleability is perhaps more important during Hadd's Phase II than it is during his base stuff. Not unlike Lydiard, he never had a set-in-stone schedule. So don't be enslaved to adhering to a planned set of structured repeats when the performance just isn't there, or when the feeling isn't. Just the same: up the ante when firing on all cylinders. No one can predict what tomorrow will bring, let alone the days that follow.

So, like Umm no told you, I cannot lay out the training in a prescriptive, all-encompassing way, since we're not there beside you. Training plans are great; training action--and reactions--better yet.

As far as tapering goes, you're young and reasonably well trained, so you'll recover pretty quickly, depending on how crazy you're training gets in the next couple of weeks (and whether you sleep enough!). I wouldn't drag a taper out for too long. All a taper is is the stripping away of the training-induced fatigue before losing any fitness/training adaptations. Fatigue and fitness trend in similar fashion, and an athlete can't be his fittest without incurring (and nursing) fatigue en route. It's all about "coming into form" (to pilfer a phrase from horse racing), by taking the aforementioned action. But strip away too much fatigue and some fitness will go with it.

Any training that falls within four or five days of a race is only in place to keep an athlete loose and fired up psychologically; there's no other benefit to your race. But bigger chronic training loads tend to demand longer taper periods. My taper ideas differ from the textbooks, in that I rest an athlete further out from the race, typically in decreasing linear fashion, before building toward the race the last four or five days, although with short-ish bouts. But tapering is more an art form than a science due to individual considerations. Keep a detailed logbook. Don't be afraid to experiment, as your best races are far, far ahead of you.

You taper should not take long. I always have a pretty hard training week the week before (high mileage also) and then the week of the race (usually Saturday) I do a good workout 5 days out. Then some 200s 2 or 3 days out.

A good taper is decreasing volume but maintaining or slightly increasing intensity.

If you have a race in the weekend and you normally run 50 miles/week. you should run something like 30-40 in race week including race etc. That's an acceptable range.

Ran like sh*t today

17:54...

I'm actually embarrassed to post this:

Splits:

5:10 (I was already breathing hard about 3 minutes in...)

6:07 (legs felt like bricks...couldn't go)

6:20 (dead.)

I died...HORRIBLY. Even after going to bed early every night and taking it easy all week.

I did a tempo 4 weeks ago averaging a FASTER pace than that for 3 miles.

I just don't understand why I'm getting worse each race. I'm getting further and further from my goal and it's pissing me off.

I have a hunch that I'm racing too much, but thankfully my next race is in 3 WEEKS.

So what have we learned today?

Race too frequently = run like CRAP (no matter how much you sleep)

Train hard race easy...now I know what they mean. Crap.

Lesson learned.

old dude from long ago wrote:

1. You're getting way ahead of yourself. Do the base training first, then re-evaluate.

2. 50-60 MPW is the starting point for Hadd's base training, not the finishing point.

3. Based on your progression to date I'd suggest you get right at some 50+ mile weeks and then take a 40-45 mile week as a break, then get back to 55-60, down to 50, then 60+ and down to 55 or so.

As far as overall progression is concerned, you can do whatever you like, but if you actually want to benefit from the Hadd base training, do it right before changing gears.

OP, I realize with 20/20 hindsight it's sometimes easier to give advice, but maybe this poster's insight applies? If so, maybe you got to slow down and start paying attention to the heart rate zone more?

I guess sleep does not make a difference, but one thing I observed is this:

Daylight savings time(DSL) = 1 hour earlier

Before DSL, I went to bed at 10:45-11:00 and woke up at 5:40 AM each day.

I change by bedtime to 9:45 PM, however...

Since DSL sets us an hour back, wouldn't that mean that TO MY BODY, I'm going to bed at 10:45?

If I go to bed at 10:00 after DSL and wake up at 6 am, it would be like going to bed at 11 PM and waking up at 7 AM before DST? Wouldn't that be worse sleep? I know I'm overthinking this, but... just a thought.

Either way, my legs feel shot right now.

Maybe, with all the running you're doing 8 isn;t even enough. Try 9 hours. I like to get 9 when I am running and lifting.

The options when your recovery is being impaired is to either to find ways to recover more (sleep, nap, improve the diet, etc), or to hasten recovery (elevate the legs, massage, etc), or to cut/alter the training load. How the training load transpires matters, though. (Some of us are more apt to incur delayed recovery when training with greater volume; others through greater intensity; some, though a lesser amount, through greater frequency).

As far as recovery goes, over-training is usually disguised as under-recovering, as is the case here. (You are NOT over-training!) Cutting the load often helps, but only when the load is reasonably big to begin. Cutting a light training load might allow for better recovery in an acute sense, but will almost assuredly lead to a more chronic decline in fitness. Fatigue is an integral part of the fitness building process, but racing at less than your best is not; it can attack the mind in no time, if allowed to. Don't allow it; you're still making progress, even if your recent race results show otherwise.

The key is to go back into TRUE base-work and measure your aerobic speed each week, which declines with such an misguided approach. Mixing all the modalities of training is not maintainable or desirable, certainly not for long periods of time. Periodization works, particularly when patience is part of it. You're trying to peak when you've got no real footing beneath you, footing that has eroded somewhat by having exited the slower, safer route up the summit.

Your options: you can either go back to base work for two weeks prior to your goal events--with nothing above your high-aerobic HR (15bpm below LT/HR). Race off that and a brief taper and note what happens. Or, conversely, cut the training load and try to maintain the training that the races entail. Based on what we see transpiring at your recent races, the former is what I'd advise; the latter is what so many others here would advise, touting "specificity." (But keep in mind that specificity, when coming off a weaker general/base phase, isn't specific to racing your best!)

No matter what, you still need to sleep more and continue to improve the training aspects that occur outside of the run part of training.

@Joggernaut,

I'll lower mileage for 2 weeks but keep intensity high, then after that race I'll go back to true base-stuff for 3 months (all through January's half marathon, which is a race) and 2 "work days" at 172-178 BPM a week with a easy week every fourth week and a longer run once a week. (60-70 mpw)

That will be after december's 5k race.

Let's see how this goes...

Hey everyone, it's been a while since I've last updated, but here's a recap:

So this morning, I ran a 16:52 at the Turkey trot, which I'm kinda happy and mad too, because I know I could've done better. I know now I'm not pushing myself hard enough, since I wasn't even breathing until the last .1 of the race.

Regardless, I'm happy I didn't run like I did 2 1/2 weeks ago (god I bombed that one!). Turns out, you can't train hard and race well at the same time. If one trains hard every week and races every weekend, they'll get worse, but if one trains hard and tapers and races every 2-3 weeks, they do much better. I nearly learned that lesson the hard way.

My last 2 weeks I've averaged 30 mpw, with simple training:

Mondays, Wednesdays are progressive tempos (start at 6:50 end at 5:30-5:45 depend on how I feel) and Tuesday and Thursday is speed (just a couple of 400s and 800s, or 20x100m sprints with 100/float on the grass). I'm also learning to stride and kick (on top of my foot) hopefully I can put on a much better race.

I have one more 5K in 2 weeks, and it'll be my last chance to set a PR for 2014. Here's how my training looks:

Next week:

Mon: 6 Miles tempo (6:50-5:30 pace)

Tue: Speedwork (400s, sprints, strides)

Wed: Same as Monday

Thu: Slower Speedwork (1 mile repeats, 800s)

Fri: 6 Miles easy (7:10-7:30 pace)

Sat: 8-10 mile long run (6:50-5:30 pace)

Sun: Rest

Happy Thanksgiving!!

Bump

I like seeing how your training has progressed, interesting stuff. IMO, you are doing too much in your weekly training. Even though you have cut mileage back, I think you are doing too much " keeping intensity up" in your words. One tempo or progression run and one speed day with some strides on one or two recovery days. I think you may have more in the tank on race day with this approach. I like your work ethic and attitude, keep up the good work.

race report?

7 dec... wrote:

race report?

17:32 this morning. It was cold, and my arms got really tired after the first mile (shoulders too).

I know FOR SURE I peaked 2 weeks ago, but I missed my chance to PR because I ran like a damn chicken at the Turkey Trot. I finally toughed up this morning, but too late...

A workout I did 3 weeks ago (the week before the Turkey Trot) These were my splits:

6:54

6:28

6:13

6:04

5:44

5:30

Probably the most amazing tempo I ever ran, yet this week, Monday, I ran 5:54 on the last mile at the same effort. That tells me I was peaked up to 2 weeks leading to the Turkey Trot, then after that, I passed it. I'm going back to more phase I stuff again with strengthening (arms, abs, entire upper body, hips, etc.) to prepare for my half marathon mid-January.

After that, I'll go into true phase 1 HADD training for 5-6 months (until June), maybe run a 5K every 2 or so months. Main goal is to hit 70-80 MPW (this year was 50-60, so I think it's reasonable). Then do phase 2A in June/July for the 4th July 5K. This time I'll be smarter about bedtime, definitely race once every 3-4 weeks, NOT every week, that I can assure you.

And main goal of 2015: Strengthening...Lots and LOTS of strengthening...

ESPECIALLY my upper body. I'm in need of a complete overhaul, and that'll be the perfect time. Then hopefully I'll live up to my username...

What you described as "most amazing tempo" run, is a progression run. J. Daniels Running Formula would be a good resource to help you to gain a better understanding of training. Hadd training is good stuff, I mainly use HR to make sure that the easy days are true recovery runs, rather than stay on say 7:00 min. as recovery pace, when HR says 7:30 is recovery pace.

Tempo pace based on 17:32 5 k fitness = 5:38.6 + 20 sec = 5:55/6:00 x 5 mi.

You ran 6:08.8 mi. avg. mi. pace for your version of a tempo workout. If you ran two paces of a threshold workout one at 80/85% of 5 K fitness and one at 90/95% of 5 k , you would probably be close to your 165 HR and 175 HR workouts. By the way, I do think your progression workout was a good workout.

If you are trying to peak for a certain race, you want to be careful of tough workouts inside of 7 days before race.

My average HR during that run was 162 BPM. According to my Garmin, I averaged 181 BPM on the last mile (5:30) and 175 on the mile before that (5:44).

I don't get it...

The progression run (on a Wednesday afternoon) felt very easy, I wasn't breathing or uncomfortable at all even at the last 5:30. I ran a 16:52 the very next week (felt like I could've gone MUCH faster!)

So I try to peak 2 more weeks to try to get a PR before 2015 but instead, I crap out to run a 17:32 2 weeks later (yesterday). What gives?

Note that the weather was the same as the other race too...

Every race, it's the same crap...Go out in 5:09-5:11, a pace I know I should be able to hold, then after the first mile, I just feel my body start to slow down and I can't speed back up for the life of me. I'm not even out of breath either, but if I try to speed up back under 5:20 (or even under 5:30!) pace, my legs start to burn! This happens just after mile 1.

Weird thing is, I have this heavy/burning all over my legs for the first 400m after the race start. This happened the last 2 races.

I'm just kind of upset, I would've been happy with a 16:30 at least but nope...

I can't understand why it's so freaking hard for my body to hold a sub 5:20 pace after around 1-1.5 miles.

If this has anything to do with it;

I'll also add that I did the following workout with a fast friend of mine (on a cold rainy Tuesday afternoon)

Fast Strides across the football field (20x100m) jogging the corners. We did 3 sets of this (3x20x100m) Followed by 2 sets of 1x80,1x60,1x40,and 1x20m ALL OUT sprints. He told me it would help my kick (which it did!) and he actually got the workout from a running magazine. It's one of the workouts Grant Fisher does for XC. (Kind of like soccer)

Oh yeah, and this was the day before the "amazing" progression run...(and 9 days before my Thanksgiving 16:50 "jog")

Sub 16, I think you have been too aggressive with your race plan. First mile at 5:09 vs. 5:17 when you ran PR . Also it looks like you are trying to go from 16:40's to 15:59 which would be a huge jump in fitness in a short time.

Work both side of current 5 k fitness. Shorter distances @ :10 sec. mi. pace faster. Longer distances @ :20 sec slower. The long run is a good place to do a 4 or 5 mi. progression run or 4 or 5 mi. @ 6:00 min. pace in a 10 to 14 mi. run. My son ran 15:3? high at turkey trot, his gps had the distance at 3.17 . His workouts indicated low 15 shape, so I think he ran to his fitness. I can share his workouts the two weeks before he ran this if your interested.

for what it's worth wrote:

Sub 16, I think you have been too aggressive with your race plan. First mile at 5:09 vs. 5:17 when you ran PR . Also it looks like you are trying to go from 16:40's to 15:59 which would be a huge jump in fitness in a short time.

Work both side of current 5 k fitness. Shorter distances @ :10 sec. mi. pace faster. Longer distances @ :20 sec slower. The long run is a good place to do a 4 or 5 mi. progression run or 4 or 5 mi. @ 6:00 min. pace in a 10 to 14 mi. run. My son ran 15:3? high at turkey trot, his gps had the distance at 3.17 . His workouts indicated low 15 shape, so I think he ran to his fitness. I can share his workouts the two weeks before he ran this if your interested.

Yes, I'd be interested but I'm training for the half marathon in mid-January, then do 70 MPW base for 3-4 months. Could I use the workouts to peak for a 5K later maybe around April-May?

Four workouts Wed.11/12 - 2 mi. @ 7:00 right into 2 mi. in 10:58 - 5 min. recovery @ 7:00 pace right into 2 mi. in 10:58 - 2 mi. @ 7:00. The 10:58 for two miles was just coincidence, was supposed to be 10:45 but wasn't feeling too peppy. Sat. 11/15 long run/workout 1.5 mi. warmup right into 1 mi. @ 7:00 - 1 mi. @ 5:04 - 1 mi. @ 7:00 - 1 mi. @ 5:07 - 1 mi.@ 7:00 - 1 mi. @ 5:06 - 3 mi. c/dwn. 10.5 mi. Shortest long run of XC season. Wed. 11/19 - 5 x .75 mi. goal pace 3:40 w/ 2:20 - .25 mi. recovery ( workout is run @ overall 6:00 pace) ran 3:42, 3:45, 3:50, 3:53, 3:35. - 2 mi. w/up - 2 mi. c/dwn. Sat. 11/22 2 mi. @ 7:30 - 7 mi. @ 5:50 - 2 mi. @ 7:30 followed by 4 days all easy 5 mi. @ 7:30 w 150 meter pick ups on the end of each mile on two of those days. We do active recovery in all workouts, never standing recovery. The workout on 11/15 was atypical long run, it was altered when he decided to run 5 k. Typical long run/workout would be between 14/18 mi. with peak at 20 mi. for 3 consecutive weeks in summer, then back down. Long run on 11/22 was beginning of short taper to 5 k turkey trot.