Russia will swallow Ukraine whole - who's next?

Those probably are predominantly Ukrainian tanks, which were in fact looted during the revolts, despite what propogandainsider.com has to say. There is no reason for Russia to give away expensive armored vehicles to separatists. They are just doing the classic propaganda salvage technique of spin your losses to be useful. If there are indeed Russian vehicles that were not in Ukrainian service then they could easily have come from the gigantic underground weapons market over there. The article is framing it like Russia is providing direct aid to some sort of established ethnic Russian regular army operating in Ukraine. There are no formal engagements taking place.

The reality of this whole situation is that it is the US and its Western allies frantically attempting to rollback the Russian expansion into the Crimean region because a significant increase in Russian naval presence in the Black Sea/Mediterranean will strategically reorganize the situation in the mid-east and to an extent the globe.

Mostly agree.

Not excusing American aggression and/or stupidity in various areas and at various times but speaking strictly of what is going on in Ukraine:

1) Russia has been sending armed forces in since the very beginning (including in Crimea. No Russian armed forces = no real breakdown of order.

2) Votes under the shadow of tanks are simply not legitimate.

3) There are many, many regions throughout the world which might vote to secede from their current country even without the tanks. Such matters are almost always best left to internal politics of the country involved, without the insertion of alien armed forces.

Some Things Should Be Obvious wrote:

Seasoned runner wrote:

Well, he is right as anyone who's been paying attention knows.

...as Russia sends in their tanks, RPGs and special forces...

Okkaaayyyyyy...

False.

Paradoxically, just because people view the U.S. as the biggest threat doesn’t necessarily mean they wouldn’t like to move there if they could. The pollsters also asked, “If there were no barriers to living in any country of the world, which country would you like to live in?” Some countries where the U.S.-as-greatest-threat view holds strong are also those where America would be a prized destination as a new home country.

Factor wrote:

Some Things Should Be Obvious wrote:

...as Russia sends in their tanks, RPGs and special forces...

Okkaaayyyyyy...

False.

Yeah, except for the fact that it is true.

Seriously, are you some kind of idiot or something who has trouble seeing what is going on? Or just an unimaginative troll?

Elder Paisios - Prophecies about Constantinople:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4qpT_ow3sc

Whoever Vladimir wants, that's who. Who's going to stop him? Obama weenie? Ahahaahahahahahah!!!!!!

YEAH WAR!!!!!!!

Some Things Should Be Obvious wrote:

Factor wrote:

False.

Yeah, except for the fact that it is true.

Seriously, are you some kind of idiot or something who has trouble seeing what is going on? Or just an unimaginative troll?

I am someone who can see the truth through the reactionary hype. Prove me wrong and link us to a legitimate site verifying that Russia is sending tanks, RPGs, and special forces to Ukraine. I won't hold my breath.

With the USA still mired in a depression, it seems you want another war to boost economic growth.

No wonder you are making such a song and dance about the Ukraine - a country that only one American in six can even find on the map of the world!

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/14/upshot/the-lack-of-major-wars-may-be-hurting-economic-growth.html?_r=0

Joe Binks wrote:No wonder you are making such a song and dance about the Ukraine - a country that only one American in six can even find on the map of the world!

If that's true, that would be WAYY better than I thought it would be. I would think more like 1 in 10 could figure it out, and even that might be a stretch (but maybe it being on the news often enough lately has been helpful). Geography isn't exactly a strong suit for most Americans, particularly small Eastern European nations.

Factor wrote:

Some Things Should Be Obvious wrote:

Yeah, except for the fact that it is true.

Seriously, are you some kind of idiot or something who has trouble seeing what is going on? Or just an unimaginative troll?

I am someone who can see the truth through the reactionary hype. Prove me wrong and link us to a legitimate site verifying that Russia is sending tanks, RPGs, and special forces to Ukraine. I won't hold my breath.

if this counts...

I would thought that items like this would be about a million times more critical and pertinent to the future security of the USA than what happens thousands of miles away that cannot possibly affect the USA in any significant manner whatsoever.

Why isn’t there outrage at what is happening on your very own borders - what is the point of having the largest army, navy and air force in the world if you cannot defend your own territorial integrity?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jun/14/border-agents-lament-mexican-gang-members-entering/

Joe Binks wrote:

With the USA still mired in a depression, it seems you want another war to boost economic growth.

No wonder you are making such a song and dance about the Ukraine - a country that only one American in six can even find on the map of the world!

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/14/upshot/the-lack-of-major-wars-may-be-hurting-economic-growth.html?_r=0

Depression? What depression?

Song and dance? What song and dance?

You clearly have no idea what is going on.

Joe Binks wrote:

I would thought that items like this would be about a million times more critical and pertinent to the future security of the USA than what happens thousands of miles away that cannot possibly affect the USA in any significant manner whatsoever.

Why isn’t there outrage at what is happening on your very own borders - what is the point of having the largest army, navy and air force in the world if you cannot defend your own territorial integrity?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jun/14/border-agents-lament-mexican-gang-members-entering/

Further proof that you know nothing of what is going on in the US. Why not work on the significant problems your own country has instead if meddling into something you so obviously know nothing about?

Serious questioner wrote:

Tao of Steve wrote:

That's what I thought.

No facts. No logical arguments. No attempt to address any of the facts I raised. Just whines of conspiracy theories and ad hominem attacks. And a non-pertinent reference to Soviet War in Afghanistan that ended 30 years ago, ten years before the fall of the Soviet Union

You say he mentioned no facts, then you bring up a fact he mentioned.

Which I then explained was not pertinent to the argument.

Not to bright, are you?

watchout wrote:

...as Russia sends in their tanks, RPGs and special forces...

I am someone who can see the truth through the reactionary hype. Prove me wrong and link us to a legitimate site verifying that Russia is sending tanks, RPGs, and special forces to Ukraine. I won't hold my breath.

if this counts...

[/quote]

It doesn't.

Officials from both the US and NATO have eagerly jumped on board the Ukrainian claim that three tanks mysteriously milling about Donetsk Oblast are Russian tanks, but as they try to back up that claim they’re finding very weak evidence.

Ukraine had initially identified the tanks as T-72s, but the State Department’s statement, as well as NATO’s annotated photos, identify them as T-64 battle tanks, an earlier Soviet-era model.

While that might seem a minor distinction, it actually isn’t, as Russia no longer has any T-64 tanks in operation, and what they have left in storage are slated for destruction. Ukraine, by contrast, is one of only a handful of nations still using T-64 models in regular service.

Indeed, NATO’s whole basis for identifying them as Russia is a single photo showing a Russian flag on top of one of the tanks, and satellite photos from a Russian military base showing other, unidentified tanks not far from the Ukrainian border. It seems exceedingly unlikely that Russia, which has 15,000 tanks between active and reserve forces, would be dragging the far-outdated T-64 models they have left out of storage just to pass a few off to the rebels for some unknown reason.

Despite being an older model, T-64s are actually considered superior to the T-72s, though both are many decades out of date at this point, and neither would be anything resembling a game-changer in the Ukrainian civil war.

NATO and the US appear to have embraced the Ukrainian allegation, as in the past, simply because it makes Russia look bad if confirmed. Then they tried to “prove” the story and found it had as many holes in it as a 50-year-old Soviet tank.

some truth to your criticism of the US. No doubt the country has done some stupid stuff.

But there is no doubt that the postwar period where the US and Europe have formed a model for the world has been very very peaceful. Per capita deaths by combat are down to amazingly low levels - call them almost flat bottom. No doubt some of this is because the US has played world supercop. The very activity you criticize the country for.

Hardly has the US superpower period been one of war and destruction. Especially since the soviets went bye bye - sine 1990 war deaths have collapsed. The oost war US hegemony has been one of great relative peace.

There is a pretty graph at this link showing what I mean:

(the article is interesting - its argument is that the great pax americana has actually cost the world economic growth - technologies have not been developed because of the lack of need. Interesting idea)

Someone tell me what you want obama to do that he hasnt already done?