mmm... wrote:
trollism wrote:Mutai. I made that quite clear.
I wasn't expecting anyone to wait.
It was using a fall as the impetus for an attack that was classless. Only Mutai did that, the others were well within their rights to cover that attack if they could.
WHY?
You can't speed up after someone falls?
So your incapability of accelerating IN A RACE makes you moral?
No. These two choads want them to hold hands and sing kum-by-yah to the finish.
Smart racing, plain and simple. Been in the situation 4 different times before and was the beneficiary and the unfortunate one too. That racing, just like life.
trollism wrote:
It's always bad sportsmanship to react to a crash by accelerating.
Mostly agree with you there and it's yeah it's fair comment in isolation. If someone is kind of taking the mick by not doing their share of the work though then I reckon they become fair game to a roll of the dice. Both in cycling and running.
Has a link to the race been posted? I've only seen the short BBC clips.
Was Mutai attacking anyway as they were crowning the Great Hill, the perfect place to attack.
What if Mo had stopped to tie his shoelace? Should Mutai have waited for him to rejoin the leading pack?
Did the pack wait for Mary Decker in '84?
Have any of YOU slowed to allow a fallen opponent to catch up?
A Suck wrote:
If Farah had accepted a RACE
No NOP-athlete will ever accept an honest race or accept to contribute to a good time.
Big Mo Fan wrote:
Was Mutai attacking anyway as they were crowning the Great Hill, the perfect place to attack.
What if Mo had stopped to tie his shoelace? Should Mutai have waited for him to rejoin the leading pack?
Did the pack wait for Mary Decker in '84?
Have any of YOU slowed to allow a fallen opponent to catch up?
Mistake a lot of people are making still.
Nobody is talking about slowing and waiting.
Only that Mutai attacked when he saw Farah on the floor, plain and simple.
Very classless in cycling, perfectly fine halfway through a half marathon.
Why?
If I had Farah's speed, I would never lead. It's a race, not a time trial. Face it guys, those who criticize the guys who don't go up front just don't have the leg speed. Plain and simple. Leading and pushing the pace is not about some sort of noble endeavor, it's the only way guys like me had a chance to win. Sometimes it worked out, most times I couldn't overcome their kick.
UK Limey runner wrote:
Mostly agree with you there and it's yeah it's fair comment in isolation. If someone is kind of taking the mick by not doing their share of the work though then I reckon they become fair game to a roll of the dice. Both in cycling and running.
Has a link to the race been posted? I've only seen the short BBC clips.
How is sitting in the pack and not wanting to lead 'taking the mick'? It's a perfectly acceptable race strategy for someone with a fast finish.
Mark Cavendish surely isn't hitting the front anytime before the very end of a flat road stage, and nobody is criticising him for it. But if he crashes and another team attacks to distance him, it's not good form at all.
trollism wrote:
Very classless in cycling, perfectly fine halfway through a half marathon.
Why?
Because this isn't cycling. If a NBA player hits the floor, play still goes on. If a NHL player or soccer player goes down, play still goes on. Molly Farah fell, big deal. Cycling is the only sport where they actually slow down...so the real question is, what's wrong with them? Answer: Too much EPO hurts the brain.
uphill run wrote:
Because this isn't cycling. If a NBA player hits the floor, play still goes on. If a NHL player or soccer player goes down, play still goes on. Molly Farah fell, big deal. Cycling is the only sport where they actually slow down...so the real question is, what's wrong with them? Answer: Too much EPO hurts the brain.
Nobody said anything about slowing down. Maybe if I repeat this enough people will stop saying that I said something about slowing down.
Cycling and running are both races - basketball is nothing like a race.
I appreciate it's not cycling, but why is it wrong in cycling, but great tactics in running? Should it be?
trollism wrote:
How is sitting in the pack and not wanting to lead 'taking the mick'? It's a perfectly acceptable race strategy for someone with a fast finish.
When I wrote that I was more thinking of cycling wheelsuckers rather than runners in a pack. In cycling accelerating away is seen as poor sportsmanship but in running it seems most see it as acceptable. What can I say? Sports culture is idiosyncratic and arbitrary.
trollism wrote:
Big Mo Fan wrote:Was Mutai attacking anyway as they were crowning the Great Hill, the perfect place to attack.
What if Mo had stopped to tie his shoelace? Should Mutai have waited for him to rejoin the leading pack?
Did the pack wait for Mary Decker in '84?
Have any of YOU slowed to allow a fallen opponent to catch up?
Mistake a lot of people are making still.
Nobody is talking about slowing and waiting.
Only that Mutai attacked when he saw Farah on the floor, plain and simple.
Very classless in cycling, perfectly fine halfway through a half marathon.
Why?
You are the one who is not getting it. Mutai has race plan you think he was going to sit and wait for Mo to kick? You seem to want him to alter his plan because Mo can't keep his sheet together.
You don't know what he was thinking at all. Maybe he planned to accelarate at that point all along. Maybe he saw the fall and decided that he didn't want to risk getting tripped up by the slower pace. Or maybe he saw a good opportunity to build a lead. Nothing wrong or classless in any of those scenarios.
Again you'd probably know this if you actually raced for something.
The cycling comparison is stupid. These are the same guys that regularly throw tantrums I.e. Throwing their bikes when hinges don't go their way.
Mutai probably wanted to book it so another NOP idiot didn't try to fall on his heels and ruin his upcoming marathon. If you can't beat em, take them out of the race.. administratively or otherwise, right Al Sally?
NOPe wrote:
Mutai probably wanted to book it so another NOP idiot didn't try to fall on his heels and ruin his upcoming marathon. If you can't beat em, take them out of the race.. administratively or otherwise, right Al Sally?
Best response.
Dumbalough. wrote:
Again you'd probably know this if you actually raced for something.
Why keep saying things like this? How does anyone know that you've actually 'raced for something'?
You're going to have to give some examples of your prowess if you're going to use these sorts of insults.
Trollism is clearly a moron. It's been hilarious watching Dumbalough make you look like a fool. If he falls and you're not supposed to stop or slow down what are you supposed to do, stay at the exact same pace? Oh please, Farah gets what he deserves for being a pansy and not racing like a man. Props to Mutai.
trollism wrote:
Why keep saying things like this? How does anyone know that you've actually 'raced for something'?
You're going to have to give some examples of your prowess if you're going to use these sorts of insults.
Such a butthurt little boy!
It looks like.. wrote:
Trollism is clearly a moron. It's been hilarious watching Dumbalough make you look like a fool. If he falls and you're not supposed to stop or slow down what are you supposed to do, stay at the exact same pace? Oh please, Farah gets what he deserves for being a pansy and not racing like a man. Props to Mutai.
Nice change of handle there. Good stuff.
Dumbalough. wrote:
A Suck wrote:I'm with trollism. I was enjoying a spirited discussion with one of the only people who seems to have actually watched this, and Dumbalough wants to talk PRs without giving his. How illogical.
Dumba$$. I wasn't talking about pRs or speed. I was talking about running in certain races.
I'm suggesting if you think it's "classless" to exploit these types of events in a race. You probably haven't competed in a high caliber race or a race with any real stakes other than finishing.
The problem is that you two keep calling it classless. It's called Real racing. It's not and has never been classless
What are you talking about "watched" this. I watched the whole race Mutai wanted to push the pace before his. But you really didn't watch it actually as the station was on a break when the trip occurred so unless you were watching it live neither of you know
Now kid. We call that Game, Set and Match
No, THIS wass the best response! "It's called Real racing." IT'S A F***ING ROAD RACE! As a hobby jogger, I can afford to stop and help someone. Mutai is after a paycheck. Do Earnhart or Stewart or Johnson or Gordon slow down if someone behind them falters (excepting yellow-flag conditions)? Racing is racing.
This is a stupid, time-wasting debate.
Irrelephant wrote:
No, THIS wass the best response! "It's called Real racing." IT'S A F***ING ROAD RACE! As a hobby jogger, I can afford to stop and help someone. Mutai is after a paycheck. Do Earnhart or Stewart or Johnson or Gordon slow down if someone behind them falters (excepting yellow-flag conditions)? Racing is racing.
This is a stupid, time-wasting debate.
I don't mind defending my position from all-comers, you're not going to make me change my mind. But when you have to stoop to using different handles to pat yourself on the back, I think it's time for this little trollism to call it a day. (Notice I've kept the same handle throughout the thread :) )
I think we all agree that Mutai was classless, but it's fine to be classless when running so it cancels out. Good compromise.