Anaerobic/speed cross training on the bike

No, you need the cns adaptations from runncing. Also, what elite cyclists run or elite runners bike?

pewow wrote:

No, you need the cns adaptations from runncing. Also, what elite cyclists run or elite runners bike?

Off the top of my head, Lance ran, Tadese got his start on the bike and made a rapid crossover to cross country and road racing success, Ritz did extensive XT on the bike, and Magness is a big proponent.

Also, the CNS adaptations wouldn't be lost if you were doing still some fast running, as it would be complementary to run training not a replacement. Also, there would have to be some CNS carryover as the movements and muscle groups are quite similar.

I see it as being a prospective route for lactic middle distance workouts because of its glycolytic nature and low impact may allow more high intensity volume. You would still be doing your raw speed work running, as well as your aerobic work.

bump

Hard gears in an altitude simulator at 10,500 = gasping

Clearly, you are the expert - why even bother posting the question

Adifferentapproach wrote:

pewow wrote:

No, you need the cns adaptations from runncing. Also, what elite cyclists run or elite runners bike?

Off the top of my head, Lance ran, Tadese got his start on the bike and made a rapid crossover to cross country and road racing success, Ritz did extensive XT on the bike, and Magness is a big proponent.

Also, the CNS adaptations wouldn't be lost if you were doing still some fast running, as it would be complementary to run training not a replacement. Also, there would have to be some CNS carryover as the movements and muscle groups are quite similar.

I see it as being a prospective route for lactic middle distance workouts because of its glycolytic nature and low impact may allow more high intensity volume. You would still be doing your raw speed work running, as well as your aerobic work.

Cycling for speed? I'm doubtful. Max velocity in running depends on how quickly an athlete can apply a large amount of force to the ground at the right angle. Effective use of the stretch-shorten-cycle (SSC) will enhance force application/power. Unfortunately for the runner, cycling does not rely much on the SSC (some in the plantar flexors). As some have pointed out, how many track (cycling) sprinters do you see cross over to the 100m? I've never seen that. They certainly can generate huge amounts of power on the bike, but I don't think they can transfer it well to the running stride. I think the runner would be better off using strength training and plyometrics to improve sprint speed.

Large volumes of cycling can be done because there is little eccentric action/muscle damage on the bike. That's one reason why stage races in cycling can last 3 weeks with 3-6 hrs of moderate and high-intensity riding a day. I'd argue most people can ride much greater volumes than they can run.

Lactic power/capacity/threshold... I think there is potential there. You certainly can generate a lot of lactate with sprints on the bike. But I think it's still unclear whether or how well it transfers to running. And here again, you have to think about which fibers your recruiting or not recruiting.

Further reading:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24206175

I have been competing in duathlons for a couple of years now. I made the transition because of running injuries. Training on the bike has enabled me to reduce my running volume. So, I rely primarily on cycling to maintain my aerobic capacity, VO2max tests have confirmed it has increased a couple of points in the last two years. I use a combination of running and cycling high-intensity intervals to train for lactic power/capacity. And I use strength/power/plyometric training to address running speed and economy.

NTHXC wrote:

They certainly can generate huge amounts of power on the bike, but I don't think they can transfer it well to the running stride. I think the runner would be better off using strength training and plyometrics to improve sprint speed.

BUT, if you included occassional short (alactic) maximal sprints in run training as well as strides after bike workout, wouldn't it seem likely to aid in the crossover effect?

Large volumes of cycling can be done because there is little eccentric action/muscle damage on the bike. That's one reason why stage races in cycling can last 3 weeks with 3-6 hrs of moderate and high-intensity riding a day. I'd argue most people can ride much greater volumes than they can run.

Lactic power/capacity/threshold... I think there is potential there. You certainly can generate a lot of lactate with sprints on the bike. But I think it's still unclear whether or how well it transfers to running. And here again, you have to think about which fibers your recruiting or not recruiting.

Further reading:

[/quote]

This is what I am talking about: increasing the training load for anaerobic systems without trashing your legs. I think it would be particularly useful in precompetetion to ready the body for race pace work for 800m-5k races.

I think such training would be very manageable as long as someone got plenty of sleep and maintained their glycogen stores. So a template might be:

M: Steady or Normal Aerobic Run

T: Very EZ Warmup, Short (6X4-8s) Maximal Sprints, Very EZ cooldown.

W:Warmup with strides and drills; Hard Intervals on bike; cooldown with strides and drills; Weights after.

Th: Steady or Normal Aerobic Run

F: Very EZ Warmup, Short (6X4-8s) Maximal Sprints, Very EZ cooldown.

S: Warmup with strides and drills; Hard Intervals on bike; cooldown with strides and drills; Weights after.

Su: Aerobic Run or Rest Day

Bump.

4-10s Short, powerful bike sprints+Weights,drills,strides,plyos 2x a week

Any potential for increasing running sprint speed with this?

And this is the kind of post that makes this board worth wading through the junk...

I think that biking fast improves resistance to anaerobic fatigue but not speed. So you might find that by doing hill sprints on a bike you improve your 400 and 800. Or possibly biking in a very low gear at 200 rpm improves your turnover. however speaking from experience daily bike commutes under normal conditions definitely do not improve your sprint speed. Hips get too tight, the leg muscles grow but in the wrong proportion.

How could bike sprints NOT be beneficial? You can manipulate so many variable more easily than in running (resistance, cadence, etc.) while being very low impact/reduce injury.

At least that is my hypothetical. Has anyone ACTUALLY tried this? Failure/success?

Here Dan Pfaff talks a about Obadele Thompson with a messed-up foot that prevented run training but allowed bike training. With no running for 3 weeks but bike training for the same 3 weeks, Thompson ran a PR for 200m! I'm not sure what Pfaff means by "chemistry" here:

http://speedendurance.com/2012/07/26/dan-pfaff-on-tapering-for-the-big-meet/