Genetics get the applause

Yup, genetics rule. Get used to it.

Recognition isn't a reason to do anything.

I am not sure many dedicated runners train as much, but I still agree wholeheartedly the elite runners were born with an exceptional potential. But we admire gifted individuals, be it in sport, music... or anything else. Turing was born with more potential than most. His work is admirable. (And he was not a bad runner either.) Who would say: "He was brilliant, but he was just born like that, so it does not count."?

Even our capacity to work relentlessly (or not) is innate.

The environment also plays a part. But you cannot blame or praise someone for his environment.

Side note: I am sick of hearing these commentators and athletes talking about the hard work. There are harder jobs than running, for one. And if athletes really worked harder every time they said it, they'd all be injured. ("I got second, I will work much harder to be first next time.", "I won, all the hard work has paid off.", etc.) It is not about hurting yourself in training. When you overtrained, you don't fix the problem by working harder. It seems they consider the average Joe wants to hear about hard work.

There is a lot more at play than just genetics and hard work. There is knowledge, skill and training methods. There's also dope which skews everything.

Bad Wigins wrote:

There is a lot more at play than just genetics and hard work. There is knowledge, skill and training methods. There's also dope which skews everything.

.

One's genome sets one's limits. Look at human runners. You'll clearly see that the best men are always faster than the best women.

"There are three components of running - hard work, talent, and drugs. Having one of them will make you a good runner. Two of them will make you an elite, and three of them will make you a world record holder." - Anonymous coach

I challenge the notion that non-elites work as hard as elites.

Yes genetic gifts play a critical role.

Bad Wigins wrote:

There is a lot more at play than just genetics and hard work. There is knowledge, skill and training methods. There's also dope which skews everything.

The nuances of your training program are irrelevant compared to the importance of genetics, and elite athletes are often the more ignorant about training than average ones.

luv2run wrote:

I challenge the notion that non-elites work as hard as elites.

Have you seen 4h marathoners cross the finish line?

genetically talented wrote:

I'd like to put forth the notion that dedicated, average runners go through the same amount of effort and pain as the elites but simply didn't get as lucky in the genetic lottery.

No they don't. How many "average runners" are putting in 110-140 quality miles a week?

Hardloper wrote:

genetically talented wrote:

I'd like to put forth the notion that dedicated, average runners go through the same amount of effort and pain as the elites but simply didn't get as lucky in the genetic lottery.

No they don't. How many "average runners" are putting in 110-140 quality miles a week?

How many 21 minute 5K runners that put in 40 miles a week for several years as a young adult do you see bump up to 110-140 miles per week and turn into 13 minute 5K guys?

If you ain't running something like 15 minute 5K's within 2 years of 40 mpw in High School AFTER your big growth spurt, it really ain't happening. Not going to become an elite.

Why do people that put in the same work, eat pretty similar diets, but have wildly divergent times?

It's funny how the harder I train, the more naturally talented I get.

genetics+work>work wrote:

How many 21 minute 5K runners that put in 40 miles a week for several years as a young adult do you see bump up to 110-140 miles per week and turn into 13 minute 5K guys?

If you ain't running something like 15 minute 5K's within 2 years of 40 mpw in High School AFTER your big growth spurt, it really ain't happening. Not going to become an elite.

Why do people that put in the same work, eat pretty similar diets, but have wildly divergent times?

Show examples of people putting in the same work and eating the exact same foods.

Also, your point about running 15minutes within 2 years or never becoming elite is very wrong.

We must have this discussion at least once a month.

How many 4 hour marathoners train 100+ miles per week? Just because they suffer in the end does not mean they work as hard. I would agree with the comment that elites work much, much harder than non-elites. A good race is made in training not on race day. We are not talking about a six week build-up. It takes 7-8 years of continuous hard training to reach your potential. The elites are obsessed...one dimensional....fanatic....and that is what makes them elite! It is no different in running versus golf or other sports. Michael Jordan´s coach in college had to turn the lights off to get him to leave the gym after everyone had long since gone to the shower room. The same holds true for Tiger Woods. He would hit balls even in the dark. Elites work way harder than the non-elites. Perhaps it is in fact genetic to be so one dimensionally programmed. Look at Bobby Fisher, the former chess champion. He dropped out of school at aged 16 to focus all of his efforts on chess. He was socially inept....but arguably the greatest player of all time. If that is what it takes to be the best then it is no surprise that many self select themselves out of the running. Not everyone is willing to sacrifice everything to be so good at one thing.

Maybe the best genetic trait is the one that gets them to train their a** off.

primegrid wrote:

"There are three components of running - hard work, talent, and drugs. Having one of them will make you a good runner. Two of them will make you an elite, and three of them will make you a world record holder." - Anonymous coach

genetically motivated wrote:

Maybe the best genetic trait is the one that gets them to train their a** off.

This is a dumb argument

dddk wrote:

This is a dumb argument

It just means that working hard is part of the picture, arguably the biggest part since all of the (physiological) talent in the world won't mean squat if you don't train, and will never be fully realized if you don't train hard. Until someone can pinpoint those gene sequences that bring rise to world beaters, then genetics is just a categorical excuse for not trying.

No. I actually like this argument. It has to do with willpower and pain tolerance-- traits that some people are just genetically more adept at. I also liked the allusion to Bobby Fisher... your average Joe just doesn't have the capacity or endurance to be really good... it takes a lucky genetic combination to get someone like that.