How do you define VO2-max training?

repeated bouts of excercise (or in the case of a 3k, 5k or 10k race one bout) that get the heart rate up to 90-100% of maximum.

Intervals usually done with a fairly short recovery...but that are long enough to not drastically drop the blood PH.

Target of accumulating 10-25min in this HR zone for the total workout.

Whats important with running is to look at what Daniels would call "velocity at Vo2max" because that takes your running form into account (Running Economy) and efficiency/energy cost at a certain actual speed. This is usually between 3km to 5km race pace. You train your legs as well as your lungs for such "speed" sessions. But even 8km-10km pace running/intervals have a benefit and should be used as true intensity at Vo2max is fairly high.

additionally, you'll eventually hit your VO2 max anyways when you run at 8k/10k pace for far enough. But the above comment is pretty much spot on.

Can also be done with very short work:rest intervals like 15:15 sec. Repeated many times

I don't. It is neither possible nor even desirable to isolate a component of Inez's physiology, and V02 max is mostly genetic anyway.

S. Canaday wrote:

because that takes your running form into account (Running Economy)

"Running economy" is yet another measure of VO2 consumption. I doesn't tell you anything about your running form into account.

I believe Running Economy does take your running form into account though. (Correct me if I'm wrong?). You could say it takes your drag CF into account as well and the weight of your shoes. It is O2 used to move your body weight a certain distance over a certain time (much like fuel economy on a car....Vo2max would be more like sheer Horsepower). One may have a Vo2max of 80 but get beaten by a runner with a Vo2max of 70 because the latter has better form and better running Economy (and probably a better LT as well...or at least an LT that is a higher percentage of velocity at Vo2max).When you do a workout like 20 by 400m at goal 5km pace with a 1min rest you are touching on LT and Vo2max but mainly you are working on Running Economy at a specific velocity. You are training your muscles at a neuromuscular level to become efficient at that desired pace. Of course all these things (HR, LT, form) are combined together to define you as a runner and all are being trained in most workouts.

you've been duped wrote:

S. Canaday wrote:

because that takes your running form into account (Running Economy)

"Running economy" is yet another measure of VO2 consumption. I doesn't tell you anything about your running form into account.

To say that the physiological concept of running economy takes running form into account is analogous to saying that fuel consumption takes tire pressure into account. Do you think measuring fuel consumption is an intelligent way to measure your tire pressure?

The problem with max VO2 is that it's always measured over long intervals and isn't a true measure of maximum oxygen consumption, limited as it is by irrelevant things like ph and muscle fatigue. You can go well above it with shorter intervals.

Max sustained HR measures only delivery of oxygen. Your type 1 muscle is what does the actual consuming. As with weight lifting, you can directly target that muscle and its supporting vascular system by stressing it well beyond what you ordinarily do in sustained exercise.

So to me max VO2 training means 90 second all out repeats and long series of shorter repeats with just enough recovery to keep the acid in check.

marijuologist wrote:

I don't. It is neither possible nor even desirable to isolate a component of Inez's physiology, and V02 max is mostly genetic anyway.

Close. You can definitely change your VO2 max, but it doesn't matter for anything, and isn't worth defining.

dfhdsfh wrote:

To say that the physiological concept of running economy takes running form into account is analogous to saying that fuel consumption takes tire pressure into account. Do you think measuring fuel consumption is an intelligent way to measure your tire pressure?

Well I'd say fuel consumption does take tire pressure into account. Ever drive your car around with a flat tire? Same thing with a big-time heel-striker/overstrider.

Running Economy (O2 consumption moving a certain body weight at a certain velocity) comes down to a lot of biomechanical factors: vertical oscillation, muscle resiliency, footstrike... etc.

I'd call that running form.

S. Canaday wrote:

dfhdsfh wrote:

To say that the physiological concept of running economy takes running form into account is analogous to saying that fuel consumption takes tire pressure into account. Do you think measuring fuel consumption is an intelligent way to measure your tire pressure?

Well I'd say fuel consumption does take tire pressure into account. Ever drive your car around with a flat tire? Same thing with a big-time heel-striker/overstrider.

Running Economy (O2 consumption moving a certain body weight at a certain velocity) comes down to a lot of biomechanical factors: vertical oscillation, muscle resiliency, footstrike... etc.

I'd call that running form.

You didn't answer my question, just uttered self-evident drivel.

Running economy not only takes running form into account, it takes "everything except VO2" into account.Running economy is not "another measure of VO2 consumption", but the relation between VO2 consumption and velocity. A better running economy allows you to consume less oxygen per kilometer.VO2 measurements at any pace typically serve as an estimator for total energy production/consumption. Running economy is the factor that translates that energy production to speed.

you've been duped wrote:

"Running economy" is yet another measure of VO2 consumption. I doesn't tell you anything about your running form into account.

S. Canaday wrote:

because that takes your running form into account (Running Economy)

Imbecile. Running economy measures oxygen consumption for a given speed.

Answer me, jerk, is the amount of fuel a car consumes an intelligent measure of tire pressure?

You're both wrong. Running economy is fuel economy both aerobic and anaerobic.

The measurement of oxygen consumption for a given speed is oxgyen economy.

That's what I said. You seemed to think it "only" measures O2 consumption, and disregards running form. Besides O2, you need to measure speed, and things like running form will improve (or degrade) running economy. Running form is in there, along with 100 other factors that improve speed or reduce the need for O2.No.

you've been duped wrote:

Imbecile. Running economy measures oxygen consumption for a given speed.

Answer me, jerk, is the amount of fuel a car consumes an intelligent measure of tire pressure?

Yeah OK. I'm not aware how I would measure anaerobic energy.

jono wrote:

You're both wrong. Running economy is fuel economy both aerobic and anaerobic.

The measurement of oxygen consumption for a given speed is oxgyen economy.