Regarding rates and valuations via Gerard Minack, formerly of Morgan Stanley:
https://www.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/minack%20rates%201.png?itok=_7Z8JCCv
Regarding rates and valuations via Gerard Minack, formerly of Morgan Stanley:
https://www.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/minack%20rates%201.png?itok=_7Z8JCCv
I can see why was fired.
agip,
You enjoy this. From my second cousin Bernd Obernuefemann, a sculptor in Nuven, Germany.
Igy
I read your synopsis, and without even considering study design, what is the dollar value of the average Visa transaction va the average bitcoin transaction?
I find the per-transaction figures of 678 kwh and 322 kg CO2 impossible to believe on their face, and I do not in fact believe them, depending on how they were calculated. I am mot sufficiently interested to go into the study design, I get the sense that those numbers were created to satisfy an agenda.
Can you explain to me any way an electronic transaction could require 678 kwh? Or how about an in-person transaction handing over a flash drive and code?
seattle prattle wrote:
mockingbird leftist wrote:
Or you'll post some link to some sketchy left wing fact checking website.
Stop gas lighting. We are not fooled. There was massive fraud.
Okay, there was massive fraud. Feel better? I thought so.
Now can we all move along to start re-building this fractured nation into one like we used to know, based on unity, fairness, and a common purpose under our new president?
Can we?!
So let's unify under a president installed via massive fraud?
The Unkle wrote:
So let's unify under a president installed via massive fraud?
What fraud?
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
agip,
You enjoy this. From my second cousin Bernd Obernuefemann, a sculptor in Nuven, Germany.
https://youtu.be/cwnO1quu-0cIgy
yipes
Also, who pays for the 678 kwh each transaction allegedly costs?
At the modest rate of 10 cents/kwh, that would come to about $68. Wire transfers cost between $30-50, and someone has to pay to cover whatever costs are incurred.
Maserati wrote:
Also, who pays for the 678 kwh each transaction allegedly costs?
At the modest rate of 10 cents/kwh, that would come to about $68. Wire transfers cost between $30-50, and someone has to pay to cover whatever costs are incurred.
Energy comes from mining, which is essentially hash verification of the ledger. That's how new bitcoins are introduced into circulation - you get rewarded for making sure the system is honest (i.e. no one is trying to spend the same bitcoin twice). As the ledger becomes larger the hash verification problem becomes more difficult (it's basically solving the knapsack problem which is NP-hard).
Estimating energy usage really isn't difficult based on modern processing capability and claims of "underlying agendas," while amusing, are almost certainly misled.
seattle prattle wrote:
if it uses an inordinate amount of electricity to be produced and mined, i don't want to be responsible for creating more of it. IT sounds like that is indeed the case and i am weighing that heavily in my decision.
For the record, i had a few oil and pipeline stocks back a year ago and dumped them for a similar environmental reason.
I think the initial promise of bitcoin as a global currency has not been realized and probably won't because institutions and companies are finding out how difficult it is to establish it as a payment system. Ease of use just has not come to be on a widespread and ubiquitous level.
Anyway, be careful. The price on that thing can just disappear almost overnight.
Physical currency isn't going anywhere - it requires no infrastructure. By the way, most oil and gas companies are transitioning to wind and solar. BP and Shell have both made plans for it and keep in mind that being a shareholder means having a vote which means you can change things for the better (in theory, and etc)
I was talking about transacting, not mining. Mining energy usage and its value is a different issue that I addressed differently.
You are correct about hash verification. If 680 kwh is actually used globally, it is a distributed cost, the individual fractional cost of which is infinitesimal and acceptable to the individual participant.
To disseminate such robust information to such a global audience may make 680kwh extremely efficient, if that figure can be solidly proven and if it does not change in the future. The increased cost vs something like Visa pays for the increased quality. How about USD? Try getting an audit of the Fed. Or BoE, who cannot account for many billions of pounds. Or DoD . Etc
Sometimes you get what you pay for.
Having said that, other cryptos like Eth may be superior to btc.
Racket wrote:
Physical currency...requires no infrastructure.
You might want to re-think that.
And if you are worried about the mining, iirc something like 18 of the 21 million possible bitcoins have been mined.
Maybe there is an increasing cost of each btc mined, idk. But one day it will end.
wondering wrote:
The Unkle wrote:
So let's unify under a president installed via massive fraud?
What fraud?
"Okay, there was massive fraud." Copy and paste from the comment I was responding to.
I guess details ain't your thing.
Nike at 137.00, bought it at 70.
The Unkle wrote:
wondering wrote:
What fraud?
"Okay, there was massive fraud." Copy and paste from the comment I was responding to.
I guess details ain't your thing.
He was obviously being facetious.
I guess subtle nuance ain’t your thing.
stan the corgi wrote:
Nike at 137.00, bought it at 70.
Yeah, excellent call. Hats off! I missed it, so I guess you’re buying?
wondering wrote:
The Unkle wrote:
"Okay, there was massive fraud." Copy and paste from the comment I was responding to.
I guess details ain't your thing.
He was obviously being facetious.
I guess subtle nuance ain’t your thing.
yes, being facetious. I trust in the courts who are not finding fraud.
seattle prattle wrote:
wondering wrote:
He was obviously being facetious.
I guess subtle nuance ain’t your thing.
yes, being facetious. I trust in the courts who are not finding fraud.
My point was that a) we will never change the minds of those who are entrenched in the belief that there was fraud, regardless of the dearth of findings to the disprove it, and b) we march closer and closer to inaugurating a new president regardless, and therefore c) we are in for almost certain failure as a vast portion of the electorate is being asked to come together under a president they refuse to accept as legitimate.
It was my way of saying 'Oh, Snap', but that guy must be off this weekend.
BItcoin - i believe the studies figure in the cost of mining and all associated costs of tracking into the cost it takes to each transaction. That's the only thing that makes sense.
I've heard for years now how crypto takes entire data farms of computers in order to mine, how some small towns in eastern WA and elsewhere had utility rates that were going up because crypto farmer developers came in and set up their computer warehouse operations there for their cheap electricity, etc.
It's no secret how much crypto uses energy.
It's probably not something i want to bolster and support. And for as little as i would be delving in, the effort to refute that belief would be a thousand kilowats of my energy more than i would want to invest in the exercise (being facetious, full disclosure).
Good luck.
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