Flatulencerrus wrote:
Ha, half the courses on this I've never heard of.
Are you from New York...? It's a big state, of course you aren't going to hear of most of these courses.
Flatulencerrus wrote:
Ha, half the courses on this I've never heard of.
Are you from New York...? It's a big state, of course you aren't going to hear of most of these courses.
Mendon Ponds? Not really, unless you're thinking of some other course for weekend races or something.
Mendon East is only hard if you run it like a moron. Go out easy enough before the "rollers" and you're fine. The end of mile 1 and mile 2 are both flat or downhill, and the middle of mile 3 is as well.
Mendon West only has Cardiac and is only 2.9 miles, not really challenging besides that.
Harris Whalen kind of sucks I guess. I heard that Bristol was pretty hilly, but other than that, no Monroe County course is too bad.
Bowdoin Park is the hardest course I have ever run. You are completely screwed if you go out too hard because the hills are so brutal. It's hard to go out slow though in the big races, which makes it difficult to pace.
Elma Meadows wasn't a hard course, really. Not too easy but it was still pretty fast given all the mud.
Totally agree about Mendon Ponds (specifically Mendon East). I would say the hardest course in Monroe County is either Harris Whalen, due to the hills with no downhill to follow and the sledding hill. Or the course behind FLCC (typically called the Newark Invitational)
Bowdoin Park is more difficult than Sunken Meadow....no question.
Bethpage Park has no hills...it's a pool table...It and Eisenhower Park are some of the reasons that Sec VIII ( Nassau County ) is the worst section in the state....one only has to look at the results of yesterday's State Meet results....most Sec VIII teams finished dead last as did the section in the Sectional scoring. Oh, how the mighty have fallen!
Came across this. It mentions courses in other parts of the country. Sunken Meadows is the NY course mentioned.
Monroe county (Rochester area) has some good courses.
Mendon ponds, was a classic. Lots of elevation and trail sections. Most of the local courses were harder than VCP, I felt.
I think they've nerfed it along with a lot of the local courses in order to make finishing times more competitive nationally.
Asbel Kiprop wrote:
Bowdoin Park is more difficult than Sunken Meadow....no question.
Bethpage Park has no hills...it's a pool table...It and Eisenhower Park are some of the reasons that Sec VIII ( Nassau County ) is the worst section in the state....one only has to look at the results of yesterday's State Meet results....most Sec VIII teams finished dead last as did the section in the Sectional scoring. Oh, how the mighty have fallen!
Given that good teams travel for invitationals and can use a flat course as a weekday workout, Bethpage is not a reason for lack of success.
Surprised Monroe Woodbury hasn’t been mentioned yet
Disagree. Sunken is a bit tougher, imo.
I believe Monroe Woodbury is the toughest course I've ever been on in the state.
top 4:
Monroe Woodbury
Sunken
BOwdoin
Manhattan.
none of the others were really tough.
I should add to say that I was at Vernon Verona Sherill in my first year coaching. I don't recall the course, but times were very slow, and as I look at recent results there, they still seem very slow. States will be there in 22 and 23.
Any thoughts from people who have been there and can recall?
VVS was the super mud course the year they hosted states
first and second time visitors get slaughtered at sunken meadow. bowdoin stays hard no matter how many times you race it. i give the edge to bowdoin to being the tougher course, as i feel guys can get good speed ratings at sunken and not be able to replicate it elsewhere, while guys who race well at bowdoin are legit.
i also can't believe that anyone would suggest the HS version of VCP is tough in any way.
stank wrote:
Josh Hamilton's Addiction wrote:
1) Sunken Meadow-Such a slow course and tough, but I do think heartbreak hill's a little overrated.
Cardiac?
Yes, I'm sure that's what he/she meant.
I'd suspect it's somewhere outside a population center, and in the Adirondacks or near Ithaca. The southern tier also has a lot of elevation change.
I will agree that cardiac hill is overated when you are running it alone not the rest of the course, but it causes trouble for runners throughout the state when they run it. For the section xi divisonal, one false move on cardiac or an early surge can cost someone the rest of the race and run 25 seconds slower.
Bowdoin park runs faster than sunken meadow does. I've ran both courses many times and sunken is the tougher course due to the longer snake hill (the first hill after coming out of the moat), and cardiac after running two miles into the race and immediatly after a small incline up the picnic area. The conversion for sunken to Bowdoin is 10 seconds, whatever you run at sunken will be 10 seconds faster at Bowdoin.
Always Be Closing. wrote:
I'd suspect it's somewhere outside a population center, and in the Adirondacks or near Ithaca. The southern tier also has a lot of elevation change.
There was an old course at Newtown Battlefield near Elmira. Nobody ever broke 17:00 on it, despite many very good runners (Christian Thompson, Erik van Ingen, Jeff Martinez) running it. It hasn’t been run in almost a decade, but I believe that may be the hardest course I’ve ever heard of.
my two pennies wrote:
Always Be Closing. wrote:
I'd suspect it's somewhere outside a population center, and in the Adirondacks or near Ithaca. The southern tier also has a lot of elevation change.
There was an old course at Newtown Battlefield near Elmira. Nobody ever broke 17:00 on it, despite many very good runners (Christian Thompson, Erik van Ingen, Jeff Martinez) running it. It hasn’t been run in almost a decade, but I believe that may be the hardest course I’ve ever heard of.
This is interesting. Just looked it up on milesplit, and they give course ratings for some of the venues.
Newtown got a +1.00! Sunken + 36 seconds, Bowdoin +32. VVS +15, Chenango Valley + 10. They do not have data for Monroe Woodbury, for whatever reason. Might be that the course was drastically changed so they don't have consistent data points.
Van Cortlandt only gets a 15 second handicap.
Is this course run anymore? I thought they stopped using it a few years back.
Anyway it was definitely a tough course. Long uphill start. Tough hills in the back part of the course and, if memory is correct, a steep hill right before the finish. Top guys would run mid 16's in my day and they were fast on the track. You had a chance at qualifying for states if you could run 17:30 on that course.