RENATO CANOVA: "HOW TO BEAT MO FARAH?TO WAIT HE WILL BECOME OLD"

Love hearing from someone like Canova, providing top-level insight and cutting through all the BS on these boards. I really like the idea of some elites being lethal to the competition and others having the mindset of being lethal to the clock. This is very true when looking back at the legends of the sport and varying racing styles. There are a rare few that were lethal to both.

Respect and appreciation to Mr. Canova for his post.

someone had to do it wrote:Renato thinks Mo could only manage 7:24 - 7:25

i cannot understand why guys like canova with his experience & some scientific background fail to acknowledge any logic ?!

they seem to place many clockings or barriers as some unapproachable pedestal which "cannot" be broken

7'25 is the classic

( now that nijel blew away the other "classic", 1'42 one last year )

7'25 is really no barrier at all for some of the elites, just that they didn't get the right pacing/conditions

given right pacing/conditions, morceli/geb/kennster wouda absolutely demolished it

i'd luv to know what canova thinks kennster couda run for 3k in ideal circumstances instead of the shitty freezing/windy/rainy conditions he got here with a 5'02 split compared to komen's 4'53

( kennster has of course no problem following a fast 2k - 4'49i wr is the proof & a little matter of wr endurance for 5k may even have allowed him to hang onto a fast 2k split ???!!! )

it woud be nice to know what you reckon his 400 speed was & obviously that 12'48 was a jog in 4th km when hicham got scared to a crawl waiting for kicking race but got blown away !!!

i thought maybe 12'42.5 - 12'45 that day

he had a 3'33pb which i never thought was very accurate reflection ( not as drastically wrong as mo's turned out )

& iirc, i think i got ~ 7'23 for his ostrava 3k ability

but a 400 estimate & how much faster than 12'48 he couda gone in ostrava woud help

i have pointed it out many times to you

you have some of your athletes you really go overboard on ( 7'20 for cherono may be one - 7'23 looks better, but tell us his 400 & ostrava 5k limit )

& some like kemboi, who you said had 51.5 speed & finished off his 26'30 in another slow last coupla ks as geb got scared of pushing but finshed finished with a 1'23 for 600 ( 55 pace for 1.5 laps ) !!!

uncontestable physics is that is well below 26'25 at even pace, just for flattening-out 9400/600 & not even accounting for uneveness in the initial 9400m

he wouda been close to 26'20 that day at even pace the whole race

however of your quoted 51.5 for him ( presumably in '03 ) & likely close to 26'20 ( 1'23 finish + physics ), you still only thought he coud go 12'53 at the time ( 13'01pb ) ???!!!

the prelim lines of fit for kemboi's ostrava shape assuming 51.5 & close to 26'20 are

51.5 / 1'48.2 ->

3'31.72

4'47.69

7'22.93

12'42.18

26'29.35

51.5 / 1'48.1 ->

3'31.36

4'47.10

7'21.84

12'39.90

26'23.55

51.5 / 1'48.0 ->

3'31.00

4'46.52

7'20.75

12'37.62

26'17.74

any serious coach shoud have a "better" idea of potential of their athletes

( even mo/salazar were clueless thinking 3'30 )

you can go here to subscribe & check them out

someone had to do it wrote:

I disagree with Renato about Mo's potential at 3000m right now.

Renato thinks Mo could only manage 7:24 - 7:25.

Well, Mo is already faster over 1500m than Daniel Komen ever was. I think (as well as Renato) Mo could manage about 12:40 flat for 5000m (possibly a few tenths under). So Komen had slightly better endurance than Mo right now.

But considering both of the above, Mo could absolutely run better than 7:24-7:25. Really, what would Renato have Mo run to show 7:20 potential? A 3:26 1500? Not going to happen for a guy like Mo. He doesn't need to. He has better endurance than El G.

What causes you to think Mo has better endurance than El G??

El G was faster over 5000m! And don't be misled because El G did not dabble in the 10K.

Look, once you've proved that you can handle the 5000, you can fairly predict your 10,000 times...just use a age-graded calculator. They are pretty accurate...as far as distance vs distance and sprint vs sprint races are concerned.

Here's the Cherono(Shaheen) vs El G last lap for the 5000m

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrGB80XFxG4

about 16:25 in the video

great vid !

haven't seen it since that day

hicham got hammered, only mustering a final

59.5

in a 12'50 compared to 53.2 in 3'26.00

( the bell time isn't shown but "last lap" immediately flashes on already by 11'50.7 on clock indicating bell-split - assume that means it indicates 4600 time )

i'm sure now people think hicham's 12'50 with 59+ finish is a far superior 5k to mo's 12'53 ( '11 ) with a

53+

...

canova will recall the 3k time, but it was pretty good, but the 4th k was shiit

( more precisely, from 3k to 4.6k from memory )

as hicham slowed it to the bell praying for a kick

renato, you remember the 3k split ?

subfive wrote:

What causes you to think Mo has better endurance than El G??

El G was faster over 5000m! And don't be misled because El G did not dabble in the 10K.

Look, once you've proved that you can handle the 5000, you can fairly predict your 10,000 times...just use a age-graded calculator. They are pretty accurate...as far as distance vs distance and sprint vs sprint races are concerned.

9 posts down....

someone had to do it wrote:

Based on Mo running a sub 60:30 half marathon

and sub 26:50 10k

Mo hasn't been in a fast 5k in over 2 years

He could run 12:40 flat right now

why don't people understand this

christ

anyone with half a brain knows Mo has better endurance than el g ever had

26:46 10k - Mo's current PR, a time El G never would have touched

and Mo would absolutely SMASH his 10k PR right now

see my above post for his 5k potential...

ventolin^3 wrote:

someone had to do it wrote:

Really, what would Renato have Mo run to show 7:20 potential? A 3:26 1500?

POD !!!

Far from the Post of the Day. The Post of the Day was Canova's.

Farah has never shown the ability to run alone. That's a great point.

LetsRun.com wrote:Far from the Post of the Day. The Post of the Day was Canova's

big guy

Really, what would Renato have Mo run to show 7:20 potential? A 3:26 1500?

has superbest logic i seen for a while

komen had 3'34pb in rieti

a number is needed

how fast does your 1500 have to be when you can bring bucket loads of golds + 26'46 long time ago in your only serious tt

( it was crap tt - they had some 68+ laps early on ), to consider 7'20 a 50/50 shot at worst ?!

Farah has never shown the ability to run alone. That's a great point.

who made the big move here before 800 out 2y ago ?

Ventolin

Do you think Mo Farah has better endurance than El G? El G certainly has a faster 5k time. What does your calculator say El G could have run for 10k?

Mr. Canova,

Great post as always. Full of insight and inside knowledge.

There's an interesting thing to consider here. If Mo Farah is going to run next year's London Marathon, will he have time to make any time trial attempts at distances under 10,000m?

categorically wrote:

"Asbel was able to finish last lap under 55" showing a very great personality."

Love it. Running a fast last lap is going to be the first thing I look for in someone's personality.

No. His last lap was 55.4. Certainly not under 55.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

Also, I don't understand how a runner does 12.9 for 100m in any cirumstance but a gale and can run 3:28

He was clocked at 11.3 in a flying 100 as part of a workout two years ago (Galen was 10.9).

I like the insights shared by Canova. I would like to see Mo and others run a time trial but I would prefer to see a good championship race. I am not sure why people 're-imagine' races (like below). If someone wanted to go 26:20, they could have gone around HG and dictated the pace.

you are insane wrote:

ventolin^3 wrote:

canova will recall the 3k time, but it was pretty good, but the 4th k was shiit

( more precisely, from 3k to 4.6k from memory )

as hicham slowed it to the bell praying for a kick

renato, you remember the 3k split ?

Ventolin, why are you having a conversation with yourself (as "someone had to do it") on this thread? Just post as "ventolin" and leave it at that. You're insane.

Why the fvck do people still think someone had to do it and ventolin are the same? This amazes me...

just because one likes to imitate the other some doesn't mean they are the same poster, and when you consider all the content and comments...it's pretty clear.

Yup yup wrote:

I am not sure why people 're-imagine' races (like below). If someone wanted to go 26:20, they could have gone around HG and dictated the pace.

That's exactly why. Because no one wanted to go 26:20. They wanted to win. Running as fast as possible increases the risk you will lose. So we want to see what they could have run if they weren't afraid to lose.

xcvdsdfad wrote:

Here's the Cherono(Shaheen) vs El G last lap for the 5000m

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrGB80XFxG4

about 16:25 in the video

Mr. Canova could you please comment on the form of Shaheen? He is so smooth and light on his feet.

question for renato canova, you say mo farah can only be beat when he gets old (heis 30 years old now) yet you coach a runner caleb ndiku (20 years old) who ran 3:29.50 for 1500, 7/10's of a second behind farah, you said caleb ndiku is now focusing on the 5000, so i am thinking a runner age 20 can improve a lot more than a 30 year old, so do you think ndiku can surpass farah by 2015 for worlds in beijing?

i would not be shocked to see ndiku surpass farah next year 2014, certainly by 2016.

what is your opinion of ndiku's potential? and his possibilities of beating farah?

ventolin i would be interested in your opinion of ndiku's potential as well?

thank you.