Men's College record for the 800

So why didn't he run in the College championships the following week?

Ryun did all of this before he was permitted to run for the school he attended, University of Kansas, since NCAA rules at the time did not allow freshmen to compete in NCAA competition.

Really? They didn't allow freshman to run?

Didn't he actually run 1:44.9 for 880y?

Is that a converted time?

Slow track, ran a heat 2 hours earlier, wasn't feeling well, no rabbits, negative split, world record

someone had to do it wrote:

Slow track, ran a heat 2 hours earlier, wasn't feeling well, no rabbits, negative split, world record

And 53.3/51.6 splits, for yards.

This is a case where "what's the record" very much depends on who is making the rules.

There is no really logical reason why Ryun's time run June 10, 1966 should count as the college record and, for example, Earl Jones' 1:43.74 run June 19, 1984, should not. Both were nineteen year old freshman and both were running in races serving as the open national championships.

Cruz would have blown him away if needed.

A Duck wrote:

Cruz would have blown him away if needed.

Not likely

Jim could have run 1:40.low in 1967 given a synthetic track and rabbiting to the bell and good pacing.

Maybe he would have had a shot at a 1966 Jim Ryun, but by 1967 it was no contest.

Ryun was good but not that good. Cruz by the same logic could've run 1:39 with today's tracks, shoes, training, etc.Also not likely.Ryun. Good. But not that good.The end.

someone had to do it wrote:

A Duck wrote:

Cruz would have blown him away if needed.

Not likely

Jim could have run 1:40.low in 1967 given a synthetic track and rabbiting to the bell and good pacing.

Maybe he would have had a shot at a 1966 Jim Ryun, but by 1967 it was no contest.

at the supposed 1s/lap for cinder to synthetic, that puts his 800m time at 1:42.3. What are pacing and even splits going to subtract there?

Logic's My Bag wrote:

Ryun was good but not that good.

Cruz by the same logic could've run 1:39 with today's tracks, shoes, training, etc.

Also not likely.

Ryun. Good. But not that good.

The end.

No

You're pulling numbers out of thin air

offer some analysis

I'll give an example

in 1966 Ryun was 19 years old and inferior to the peak he would hit 1 year later

but - let's look at his WR run in terra haute 1966

1:44.9 880y so 1:44.3 800m

- 1s/lap for '70s synthetic

= 1:42.3

Rabbiting to the bell (traditional rabbiting in 800m is from 150m --> 400m so not full 1s)

= 1:41.7

Even out pace (big negative split, 1 of only 2 WR runs with a negative split) and you're looking at

- 1:41.low

Consider that he ran a qualifying heat 2 hours earlier and also was feeling ill

Easily in 1:41 flat shape and quite possibly 1:40.high shape

He would be in 1:40.low shape one year later.

Cruz would have been toast

jjjjjjjj wrote:

at the supposed 1s/lap for cinder to synthetic, that puts his 800m time at 1:42.3. What are pacing and even splits going to subtract there?

See my post above

The tracks weren't that much inferior in Cruz's day.

Logic's My Bag wrote:

Ryun was good but not that good.

Cruz by the same logic could've run 1:39 with today's tracks, shoes, training, etc.

Also not likely.

Ryun. Good. But not that good.

The end.

someone had to do it wrote:

Not likely

Jim could have run 1:40.low in 1967 given a synthetic track and rabbiting to the bell and good pacing.

Maybe he would have had a shot at a 1966 Jim Ryun, but by 1967 it was no contest.

So do we consider Achon's 1:44.55 run in May 1996 as the in season collegiate record for 800m?

backkick wrote:

...both were running in races serving as the open national championships.

I thought Ryun's was at the USTFF meet, not Nationals.

But in any case, I happen to agree: if Earl Jones was still a college student, why shouldn't the time be a collegiate record?