EPO Does Work on Kenyans! Surprise!

Jeff Wigand wrote:

That's why they test him in Ethiopia. He was tested out of competition in Ethiopia in 2011 as much as anyone else.

What if he's not available whilst in Ethiopia?

They (the IAAF) don't have a whereabouts system as such (not in the sense that you have to give a place you are going to be for an hour each day.) So if they're not there, they don't have to be tested. All the testers can do is wait.

Taking and passing other dope tests is irrelevant. Of course he's going to be available to testers for the other 95% percent of the time the result would come back negative.

trollism wrote:

What if he's not available whilst in Ethiopia?

And he's listed to be there and his management hasn't sent an email or fax to Monaco indicated his revised whereabouts? Then it's a missed test.

trollism wrote:

They (the IAAF) don't have a whereabouts system as such (not in the sense that you have to give a place you are going to be for an hour each day.) So if they're not there, they don't have to be tested. All the testers can do is wait.

That's exactly what they have

Every quarter, everyone in the testing pool has to give their location at a specified time for each of the 90 days in the quarter.

Care to revise your statement?

The man that did doping dozens of cyclists in a list of clients that did include Lance Armstrong, do you want that i trust you, that he doesn´t know about his doping business ? I know that he doesn´t say everything he knows, but is a he an idiot that did use EPO in cycling if doesn´t work ?

First he did dope Francesco Moser, then he did work with Prof. Francesco Conconi also accused in court of doping.

The man is an EPO authority.

Then he works with Alessandro Bertolini, Gianluca Bortolami, Gianni Bugno, Mario Cipollini, Claudio Chiappucci, Armand de Las Cuevas, Fernando Escartín, Gianni Faresin, Giorgio Furlan, Ivan Gotti, Andreas Kappes, Kevin Livingston, Eddy Mazzoleni, Axel Merckx, Thomas Dekker, Abraham Olano, Daniele Pontoni, Tony Rominger, Paolo Savoldelli, Filippo Simeoni, Pavel Tonkov, Enrico Zaina and Beat Zberg and Lance Armstrong.

On 13 June 2012, Ferrari was officially charged by USADA with administration and trafficking of prohibited substances. As Ferrari did not formally contest this indictment, he was issued a lifetime ban from professional sport in July 2012. In December 2012, Ferrari still protested his innocence in an interview with Al Jazeera. He notably stated about Lance Armstrong in that interview: “So, either he was clean – and in my opinion, he was clean and he says he was clean – or the tests are not powerful,” Ferrari added, before laughing: “Or the UCI was corrupt.” In January of 2013, after Lance Armstrong had confessed to using PEDs, Ferrari claimed on his blog that the cyclist could have achieved similar blood values and performance with altitude training.

You are indeed given a break because you obviously answer your self, I said that until the results are published in a peer reviewed journal, I Will not take them seriously, because of scientific protocol. They might be true, but, I am willing to waitYes Ethiopia and Kenya have been dominating even before the EPO era. Bikila won barefoot on the Cobblestones of Rome, the greatest long distance running feat of all time in my mind.During the EPO era not only have East Africans have improved but everyone has improvedThe only location that has suffered in performance with the increased testing has been north Africa.Unlike most people I am willing to say this and correct me if I am wrong, No one is going to give East Africans a break if they were cheating, imagine if Western nations were dominating track and field? wont there be more money in the sport? then why allow cheats to run the sport into the ground. Why was the cross country schedule changed? because it was an East African Parade, if us in the US were winning don't you think it would be a bigger event with more money? Imagine if Mo Farah was a white Briton? Do you think we follow Rupp because he is a good athlete? Wake up and know that East Africans have no say. I am old and wise enough to know the influence that each country and race of people have in the world and each society, and those folks have none in this world, if they were cheating they would be punished and shamed quickly.Unlike you I have been to those nations and lived there for considerable amounts of time and apart from Raw talent and abundant role models, the biggest incentive is running is the only way to get out of poverty. And their healthcare systems are so shoddy that the thought of systematic doping is almost comical to me. And in most cases you can trace the fact that their dominant athletes started winning as juniors, they never just come out of the woodworkYes, cheats exist there, but, I am willing to say that David Rudisha or Mohammed Amman are clean and super talented individuals. We can convince ourselves that they are on EPO or take the Salazar model of working hard with the talent we have.

trollism wrote:

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Blah blah blah. Dominating 50 years ago? Gimme a break.

So the fact that the Africans started running crazy fast at around the time EPO came along is just a happy coincidence?

THERE IS STILL NO RELIABLE TEST FOR EPO - why do people keep saying that there is and it's a reason for the drop in the number of people doping?

ferrari is the 'boss' when it comes to doping in cycling

he's the top guy like antonio

hey wigand

i know you not too smart

i can deduce from your postings........

but there's a lot of flexibility in regard to missed tests and whereabouts

you dont just get busted for missing a test like........

just sayin wrote:

hey wigand

i know you not too smart

i can deduce from your postings........

but there's a lot of flexibility in regard to missed tests and whereabouts

you dont just get busted for missing a test like........

There's very little latitude. Ask Christine Ohuruogu how flexible they are.

off the top of my head

didn she miss 3 tests like??

Which is the limit in a

just sayin wrote:

off the top of my head

didn she miss 3 tests like??

You're allowed two missed tests in a five year period. Miss a third and you're banned for a year.

think its more flexible than that

EPO works in horses [1]. EPO works in dogs [2]. EPO works in rabbits [3]. EPO works in humans, and specifically in distance runners. [4]

Mr. Canova, with all due respect, but to believe that EPO does not work for the elite Kenyan distance runners would require the suspense of intellectual rigour to an extent that is usually only afforded to religious fanatics, or to small children around Christmas time.

By the way, I think the last paper [4] is the study cited in the Runner's World article (and it is peer-reviewed) - but it his hardly revelatory, there are dozens more like it, all freely available to read online.

[1] Jassaud et al. (1994) "Kinetics and haematological effects of erythropoietin in horses."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7889038

[2] Böning, Maassen, Pries (2011) "The hematocrit paradox--how does blood doping really work?"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20617487

[3] Zinchuk, Shul'ga, Guliai (2010) "Erythropoietin influence on oxygen transport function of blood and prooxidant/antioxidant balance in rabbits under lipopolysaccharide injection"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20297691

[4] Durussel et al. (2013), "Haemoglobin Mass and Running Time Trial Performance after Recombinant Human Erythropoietin Administration in Trained Men"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3571963/

Jeff Wigand wrote:

This is only the case with the women's records set in Beijing in 1993. The men's world records for 800m, 5000m, 10000m, the steeplechase, half marathon and marathon have all come since the advent of reliable EPO testing. And 35 of the top 50 all-time marks in the men's 5000m have come after 2001.

But I think you'll find that although a test for EPO emerged in late 2000, I don't think it's viewed by many to be "reliable".

There were several false positives and several athletes who passed all the tests (e.g Jones) despite admitting later that they were taking EPO.

From what I can gather the "reliable" version of the EPO test didn't emerge until 2006!

apologies if that came out wrong antonio

it was meant to read

he's the top guy like .............................antonio

wasn't implying anything there

just sayin wrote:

think its more flexible than that

Based on what?

Peer Mediator wrote:

But I think you'll find that although a test for EPO emerged in late 2000, I don't think it's viewed by many to be "reliable".

There were several false positives and several athletes who passed all the tests (e.g Jones) despite admitting later that they were taking EPO.

From what I can gather the "reliable" version of the EPO test didn't emerge until 2006!

Fine. Even though people were done in by the EPO test before 2006, use that year. 23 of the top 50 times at 5000m have been run from 2006-2012.

Querfeldein wrote:

EPO works in horses [1]. EPO works in dogs [2]. EPO works in rabbits [3]. EPO works in humans, and specifically in distance runners. [4]

Mr. Canova, with all due respect, but to believe that EPO does not work for the elite Kenyan distance runners would require the suspense of intellectual rigour to an extent that is usually only afforded to religious fanatics, or to small children around Christmas time.

By the way, I think the last paper [4] is the study cited in the Runner's World article (and it is peer-reviewed) - but it his hardly revelatory, there are dozens more like it, all freely available to read online.

But it doesn't really deal with elites, does it? To Renato's point, there must be diminishing returns, you agree?

will you stop wigand please

i highly doubt its 3 missed tests in 5 yrs

just sayin wrote:

will you stop wigand please

i highly doubt its 3 missed tests in 5 yrs

I don't know why that article said five years. I thought it was 18 months (my mistake for quoting them and not the trust IAAF anti-doping book):

IAAF Anti-Doping Regulation 2.17 if you want to look it up for yourself.

President of the IAAF, Lamine Diack doesn't think there's a problem:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/may/31/athletics-doping-kenya-denial?INTCMP=SRCH