Cain NOT a HS athlete anymore

lease wrote:

[quote]jubsjkdkljskld wrote:

For those wondering, Mary Decker ran 2:02.4 at age 14 in 1973. That year she beat Sabaite, the 1972 OG silver medalist at 800m, in the US-USSR dual meet.

Thats insane. Why didn't she run 1:55? Any idea why her times stagnated? Even barring puberty, a female should at least improve by 7 seconds over the course of 4 years.

Emma Coburn is still a Collegian and her time is 2 seconds behind Cain

yeah too bad Salazar probably has her doped to the gills.

no.

It's a petty argument the OP is making. Prodigies sometimes rub adults the wrong way, assuming the OP is an adult.

Not knowing anything about what formally constitutes a HS record (maybe it's defined in some HS handbook), I'm inclined to think that it should only include events that occur in the scope of normal high school competitions. So pro and summer competitions wouldn't count. I guess that means I wouldn't count Webb either.

HS competitions though are something unique to the US. In many other countries, track is a club system outside the HS system, and Mary Cain would compete as a Junior.

rekrunner wrote:

Not knowing anything about what formally constitutes a HS record (maybe it's defined in some HS handbook), I'm inclined to think that it should only include events that occur in the scope of normal high school competitions. So pro and summer competitions wouldn't count. I guess that means I wouldn't count Webb either.

HS competitions though are something unique to the US. In many other countries, track is a club system outside the HS system, and Mary Cain would compete as a Junior.

There are multiple different organizations that keep lists of high school records and each has their own standards for what qualifies. Fortunately in the big scheme of things those lists are no very important.

The athletes who will be competing with the world on a regular basis are more likely to come this route than then standard HS and College route. They will also have her type of attitude/brashness/confidence: "my kick is not something to be messed with." (Oxy post-race interview)

Sloop John B wrote:

yeah too bad Salazar probably has her doped to the gills.

I would report your moronic post, but it's likely the BroJos (aka Kings of the Drug Cheat Witch Hunt) agree with you.

Since Cain has not run her best times representing Bronxville H.S. they do not count as Bronxville H.S. records.

Her freshman 4:17.84 counts and her sophomore 2:03.34 counts. The best of young Bronxville has them in sight, and it would not surprise anyone in this Village to see them broken within the next 5 or 10 years. Kindergarten kids are licking their chops now.

Cain's 1500 is a high school record because she ran it while enrolled in a high school. In this context it is THE TIME THAT COUNTS, nothing else. Is this so difficult to understand? SHE DOES NOT HAVE TO RUN FOR ANY PARTICULAR HIGH SCHOOL TO HAVE THE OVERALL HIGH SCHOOL RECORD. SHE DOES NOT TO HAVE AN AFFILIATION. SHE DOES NOT HAVE TO BELONG, SUBVERSIVE AS THAT MAY APPEAR. If one insists she be part of a team, rah rah.

In 30 or so years, some girl will end up besting Cain's record. Talents like hers are generational.

Actually, there may be girls just as talented but who instead of devoting themselves to running, end up doing swimming or soccer, or even softball.

The most talented person, strictly defined, isn't necessarily the one who applies the talents. But Cain, even with all that said, seems to be the most talented given how far ahead she is from others her age in the world

JInjnjin wrote:

Cain is also a whole new level... Never seen before... Maybe ever...

Jim Ryun? eh? She's not even in the same universe.

Mr. Obvious wrote:

There are multiple different organizations that keep lists of high school records and each has their own standards for what qualifies. Fortunately in the big scheme of things those lists are no very important.

I'd add that the more restrictive they make their lists the less anyone is likely to pay attention to them.

I ...was gonna say something, but I'm not even going to bother. Discussions like this represent the worst of letsrun.

bguyXJ213K wrote:

cayla hatton is an example of being pulled to a fast time. I dont think she would have run 33:16 if she wasnt mixing it up with the male runners. Wasnt she the only female in the field, or was it a co-ed race altogether?

It was a coed 10k at a po-dunk DIII meet. Very common to combine 10ks at those kinds of meets, and it is expressly allowed by the NCAA. Probably an underused opportunity for women to run fast, IMO. If people started taking advantage of it, the NCAA would clamp down I'm sure, but until then, if you are a girl looking to run an evenly-paced 33-34min 10k, a small college meet is a great opporunity.

Cain isn't the only runner who's run more than a couple races against elites. Ajee Wilson did, Chanelle Price, Hasay (more than a few), Verzbicas and others. It's not unusual at all and it's not fair to single Cain out with respect to HS record standards. You can't arbitrarily draw the line.

For NFHS, on the other hand, there is a clear definition. For T&FN News and their record-keepers, it's as long as you are an HS student and before Aug. 31 of your senior year. Anything in there counts.

Mr. Obvious wrote:

Mr. Obvious wrote:

There are multiple different organizations that keep lists of high school records and each has their own standards for what qualifies. Fortunately in the big scheme of things those lists are no very important.

I'd add that the more restrictive they make their lists the less anyone is likely to pay attention to them.

Exactly. The criteria for a National Federation of State High School Associations (NFHS) record are

1) An event limited exclusively to high school contestants. (eliminates Pre, open meets, USATF Junior or Senior nationals, etc.)

2) Be in a meet involving five or more high schools. (Not even sure what the point of this standard is. I guess records in 2, 3, or 4 team meets aren't valid? This criteria also eliminates any meet like Nike Outdoor Nationals or other post-season meets that are limited to high school only competitors but don't involve athletes specifically competing for their high school team).

3. Use FAT timing. (Makes sense although I'm not sure how they would handle a clearly superior distance mark in a hand timed event.

The NFHS is about as close to a list of "official" high school records as there is as it is made up of schools, that are members of state associations, and compete under NFHS rules. However, most people realize that if you're referring to "high school records" the NFHS criteria are too restrictive, and these records are rarely viewed by most fans/stats people as the official list of high school records.

Actually, if you want to compare her to Jim Ryun at the same age, it's an interesting one.

Ryun, 17 in 1964, broke four minutes for the first time, which was about six seconds faster than the previous HS record. He finished 4th-8th in some pre-Olympic trials races, then third in the final race to make the Olympic team. He was competing against the best the U.S. had at the time.

Mary, 17, broke the previous HS 1,500 record by six seconds. She is placing close to the top in races against runners who are close to the best in the U.S. at the moment. If she places in the top three at the U.S., she will be roughly on a par of what Ryun achieved at the same age.

So if you set a world record at HS that shouldn't count!