Road racing and training thread - week ending 4.28

Hi, everybody!

CMM- how far are you pacing your friend? Nice week, regardless. You look like you're bouncing back well.

VFrunner- sorry if you've mentioned this and I missed it, but why the quick turnaround between marathons? Is it part of your 50 state endeavor? Either way, I'm intrigued to see how it goes.

Yuri_G- Nice race! Looks you did things the hard way, but hey, a PR is a PR.

Slartzio- For what it's worth, I think the whole minimalism thing is great. As your calves adjust, you'll notice a world of difference. Congrats on the PR as well.

NumbersGuy- Congratulations! That's so awesome to hear! Enjoy your time off.

Did Brum ever check in last week? I must have missed him.

My week-

M- 4mi easy, tired from the Sat Workout/Sun long run combo

T- Noon- 4 easy PM- 12mi w/4mi tempo (21:12) on the treadmill, 1% incline for 3mi, 2% incline for .75, 3% incline last .25, mile jog, 4x200 on, 200 off on the indoor track 34, 33, 31, 31.

W- Lunch- 5mi easy PM- 8mi easy

Th- Lunch- 4mi easy PM- 6mi easy (after night class)

F- 7mi w/8x30 sec steep hills, 800 effort

Sat- Noon- 5mi easy, drills and strides PM- 15mi easy

Sun- 18mi moderate, 1:53:08, rolling course including the Newton hills on the Boston course

Tot- 87

Tuesday's workout was great, Friday I was so worn out from the week (still in busy mode at work) and only managed a wimpy workout, and on Saturday I had intended on doing a 5/10mi double, but was running with a friend I hadn't seen in a while and wasn't paying attention to how far I had gone. Sunday was great, ran with some old teammates and we had no idea we were averaging ~6:15 pace over the Newton Hills until one of us mapped it out afterward. I was pretty dead on Sunday afternoon (37 mi in two days!) but I feel good today. The weather in Boston was beautiful this week, which helped.

Rushed - great back 2 back 5Ks. 32:00 as the goal? I'd say you are right there or probably faster.

Yuri - Love the fact that you just can't help yourself when a racing opprtunity avails - nice PR. You are coming along nicely. Stay healthy.

Slartzio: Sold 1/2.

Pikachu: 31 and change 10K on an 80 mile week. Pretty impressive.

#sguy - Congrats on the PR. Know you worked very hard for it. Well done.

xenon: Big PR buddy. Must feel good. Congrats

Reg Fields: Nice 1/2.

Until next week all . . .

Numbersguy, Reg Fields, Xenoscreams- Congrats on the huge PRs. It was a pleasure to follow along with your training for the past few weeks and to see your training and dedication pay off.

Slartzio- Solid race man even though you didn't hit your goal you still PR'd. Keep plugging away, you'll get there soon.

has been who never was- Nice and easy down week. I like the sound of your summer racing plans.

CMM268- Take care of that achilles man, good to see that you're not really pushing things at this point either. Good luck with that 26.2 long run next weekend.

VF Runner- Seems like the experiment is going well. Looking good.

Rushed- Damn, nice 2x5K workout.

Yuri_G- Good to see you continue to cash in on the recent block of quality training you had. Congrats on the PR.

Gmuze- Good week. Nice to see some quality in there too even if you didn't feel so hot. Do you plan on training on a 4-day/week plan for this cycle? Or just for the next few weeks?

pikachu- Very nice week indeed. Two workouts AND a solid race on a tough course. I know you're probably capable of much faster times when you are in peak shape, but good to see someone who can put their race performances in the context of where they are in their training buildup.

NP1112- Dude, triple digit week already? I don't think most people would be able to tell that you just ran a marathon less than 2 weeks ago by looking at that training week. Good work man.

Edgemont Dave- I see you have joined VF/ on the 5-week plan. Best of luck.

Printer- I am feeling your pain. I am having a much rougher time coming back from this marathon than any of my other ones (except for my first, which I ran on with an injury to start with). Smart move to go with the doctor, I finally saw a physical therapist on base last week and wish I had gone sooner...

Team Bartowski- Smart to take a down week after a couple of higher mileage weeks.

nick83- Sorry to hear about the potential injury but sometimes you gotta think long-term man. Regardless, hope it's nothing too serious.

renwed marathoner- Nice week indeed. That's one of your higher (highest?) miles recently right?

NJ Truth- I assume you are feeling pretty good right now from the lack of comments on the IT band. Smart to take it easy too.

Darwinian- Nice to see you back in it and taking it easy.

Another- I know how it feels, it gets better. Key thing is that you don't have any nagging injuries/pain right now.

John Berryman- Sorry to hear about your health issues and not getting to race for a team next year, but as I was reading that I was already thinking "why not a fall/winter marathon?" before you mentioned it.

I guess it's hard to tell what kind of shape you are in, but as I recall most of your runs were in the 6:45-7:15/mi range before your recent bout of illness right? That probably indicates that you are in decent shape but it's hard to tell without recent workouts. Your workout times show potential for sub-2:30, but how much training can you put in with law school next fall? I think 2:45-2:50 would be a pretty attainable goal in 6 months for you, but if you get in pretty good shape 2:45 might turn out to be a hard long run effort.

I would say you should wait til you're healthy enough to run, then do a 6-8 week block where you mostly build miles and do some farlek or short workouts the last 2-3 weeks before running a 10K/10mi/HM race. (I love 5Ks, but I feel like those times don't translate nearly as well to marathon performance as the longer races). That'll put you somewhere at the end of June or early July and give you a solid 4-6 months to build towards a fall/winter marathon. I would think a reasonable goal given your situation would be to take your HM time from that race and shoot for the same pace in a full. Obviously you can modify your goal if you start killing your workouts.

Sorry if I rambled for a bit, and you're obviously free to take/ignore it. Hope you feel better soon regardless.

CTA- I think I like your training week the most of out of everyone on this thread, but mainly because I think I would be in a much better place injury-wise if I had done the same.

DCrunner0910- Sorry to hear about your rough patch with lacking motivation. At this point it's probably better to take a down week anyways and rest up. From the sound of it you don't have any lingering injury issues this week though?

Grizz- I am fairly certain that's the highest mileage week you have posted since your January marathon and you sound like you felt pretty good doing it!

Pablo- I am in the same boat (but with my right knee... will post details later along with my week). I was freaking out a little bit with having to take another potential downweek, but seeing you being so calm about your nagging pain/issue (and us having the same goal race) has made me feel a LOT better.

Hey Steve,

Yep it is actually. In fact, I haven't noted this but I've been biking 12-14 miles every other day to commute to work. I played ultimate frisbee friday which is equivalent to a decent speed workout. Also, it's been pretty warm here (Athens,GA). I've also been shifting mileage to longer runs. So I feel great about my training right now! :).

I think I'll add more details to my weekly reports.

Cheers folks! Keep training well!

SteveInAlaska wrote:

Pablo- I am in the same boat (but with my right knee... will post details later along with my week). I was freaking out a little bit with having to take another potential downweek, but seeing you being so calm about your nagging pain/issue (and us having the same goal race) has made me feel a LOT better.

I'm certainly not worried about any loss in fitness. I've been able to run half PRs (as well as 5k PRs) very quickly after a brief break...especially coming off a marathon cycle. I'm more worried about the naggles sticking around and affecting workouts and such, hence, the few more days off.

We've still got almost 8 weeks till the US half. If you count the training for Boston as your "base" (which is a valid assumption) then you're still looking at a solid 6 weeks of workouts even if you take this week as another down week. Plenty of time.

Another - So you're in Hood-to-Coast huh? I guess that means I won't be passing you in the middle of the night somewhere in New Hampshire for Reach the Beach?

CTA - Go ahead...take another week off!

grizz - Damn, there it is! Very impressive to run 15 on Saturday evening and turn around and run a quick 18 on Sunday morning.

Pablo I think it's looking more like 60-70 maybe, but I'm just letting it be whatever it ends up. I'm aiming for 16-17 this coming weekend. I think I'm going to keep sliding in a few MGP miles more often rather than worrying about getting the total up.

Reg Congrats! Thread PR week rocks on. I was pretty sure 1:25 was a no brainer, but I'll admit I was pegging you for more like 1:22:30-1:23. Excellent work. Keep the miles and hard work up and a few more lbs will probably work themselves off, but like you said, you gotta live life!

Grizz Yes and no. 5 week gap from Boston to Pocono but I don't have any long term plans for 50 ... unless you see me being interviewed after one of those Powerball drawing I suppose.

Thought for the group for the future - It was kind of fun meeting a bunch of the thread in Boston, and there are a number of us that are in or can get to the Northeast ... could make for a fun (and fairly quick) Ragnar (or similar) team.

vf: that sounds like a solid plan, a friend of mine would do something similar and it always left me kind of confused because he'd run really well off of un-tapering. good that there's a term for it

pablo: hope the achilles heals up

reg: you appear to have crushed that goal of yours, congrats

bartowski: this is reassuring, because the 9-5 idea/plan was what i had planned to do anyway.

darwinian: congrats on the long run pb.

another: slog's a good word and i've heard good things about hood to coast.

cta: i've been in a sort of similar situation for about five months, fortunately for me, im moving to a big city in like 3 weeks, so i'm looking forward to that.

grizz: in college we always had a long workout on saturday and a long run on sunday and it left me feeling dead a lot.

steve: ya, i've got a tendency to set goals that are too ambitious then end up biting off more than i can chew and mostly choking and dying (metaphorically) and that would allow me some time to get back in shape at a reasonable pace too so, i'll have to play it by ear for the first few weeks. a lot of my college friends will be back in town in a few weeks so i'll get to start training with them until i move. i'll probably starting doing mp stuff at 6:15 pace this time around. after 6 ish weeks, i dont think that will be outrageous.

alright guys got about 30 in this week and ran a 20 flat for 5k (the shame).

I am also leading the nation in pity claps this season..

Thank god that track season is done. Going to take a couple weeks off and do some cross training/rehab (the Insanity program, if anyone is familiar with that)

Hope everyone is having a good week, I might be changing my handle to something a little more fitting. TIger_Runner is really generic.

pablo - I'll still be at RTB three weeks later. Can't pass up these relays. Wanted to see what H2C is all about also, so turning that into a quick West Coast vacation since my wife's best friend lives in Seattle.

I'll be on an Ultra team for RTB this year, so I'll be moving even more slowly.... ;)

Nothing exciting to report - just took another down week after Boston. It's been nice and I've been able to get a lot of fishing in (thank the Lord I live so close to the Willamette - nothing like going salmon fishing after work), but I'm getting the itch to start kicking it back into gear. Now for Kudos -

Slartzio and Number's Guy, great races! Placing high, especially in the the longer races, always feels nice!

xenonscreams - Great job to you too, but I wanted to give a special shout-out because I like it when hometown people do well!

NP1112 - Good lord, 100 already and another marathon coming up soon? Beastly! I had 3 months between my debut and sophmore marathons and almost felt like that was riding the razor's edge, but you know yourself better than anyone and I'm sure as long as you handle yourself right and listen to your body, you'll go crush another marathon.

Anyway, business time

Goal Race: Portland Half Marathon (10/6) and an undecided Fall Marathon

Next Race: Midsummer Night's Run 10k (6/15)

Monday: Day off

Tuesday: 4 Miles

Wednesday: Day Off

Thursday: 6 miles

Friday: 6 miles

Saturday: 6 miles

Sunday: 4 miles

Total: 26 miles

Like I said early, just another down week to give the body some rest and time to heal after a loonnng uninterrupted traning block and another one around the corner.

So I have a question for you guys - right now the long term plan is the Half the first week of October, then a fall marathon, then Boston again next year. For the fall marathon, I'm floating between New York, Seattle, or CIM. but I was wondering if any of you guys have run any of them and which you'd recommend? Thanks!

@VF - looking forward to see how this turns out for you.

@Rushed - nice Saturday workout.

@Yuri - great work, nice PR! Interesting that you were able to go so long without looking at your watch. I probably don't make it more than 1 minute during a race without glancing at it.

@Starzio - congrats on the new PR. Careful with those shinsplints, make sure you take care of them. Stretch those calves!

@Pikachu - wow, nice race. very impressive.

@NP112 - very impressive recovery from Boston!

@Numbersguy - Great race! Very happy for you and glad that taper worked out. I will check out that Hanson's book, maybe try it for my next marathon.

@nick83 - congrats on the wins, good luck with your injury

@john berryman - you are way faster than me, so i have no idea. but i have gravitated towards starting a program with a range of times that would be acceptable and then narrowing it down as the program progresses and I see how the training is going.

@xenon - PRs are contagious around here, congrats!

@VF again - what is Ragnar? I've kind of been interested in doing one of these RTB relays type things, seems fun.

@Angel - I've not run any of those, but isn't it too late to get into New York? CIM is supposed to be pretty fast, assuming you don't get massive flooding like they had this year.

Goal Race: Philadelphia Half (9/15) in 1:17.xx

Next Race: Dam to Dam 20k (6/1)

M: Off

T: 5mi easy (first run post Boston - this hurt)

W: 5mi easy

Th: 6mi w/ 4x~15s surges

F: 40min on trainer

S: 6.5mi easy

S: 6.75mi easy + 4x~15s hill sprints + 25mi bike ride

Total: 29mi

Nothing interesting here, just slowly getting back into gear post Boston. Plan to keep some cycling up as I may try to ride up Pikes Peak over the 4th. The next week or two should look similar, just building mileage and adding to the number of strides/hill sprints. I am also going to start the Plyo program from this Running Times article:

http://www.runnersworld.com/improve-running-economy-plyometrics

NJ: What is your goal for the 10k?

berryman: only reason for the 2nd 3mi run was I wanted to run with a friend and that was his workout. Probably shouldnt have done it. But i do 99% of my miles alone so it was a nice change

I like the mcmillan calculator myself. I am sure they are all pretty close. It would be easier if you got some good workouts or a recent race in and then plugged those times in and see what you think. As far as structured plans I like the book "advanced marathoning"

xenon: congrats on the pr! i knew you had a big race in you with your dedicated rehab and training. pretty cool you got to hang out with some famous runners too!

pablo: hope the achilles gets better and you can get back to workouts soon.

regfields: congrats again on the PR and finishing fast! no long break, too soon till the next one that i need to redeem myself on haha

another: hope you had help with all of that mulch! I know what you mean on keeping up with the cross training. anyone have tips on how to keep motivated at it? even if it is just 2x a week.

CTA: love the attitude. I wish I could have that same outlook. would probably feel better haha

dc: good luck getting back into the grind. keep looking forward

grizz: great week. how did you like the 4mi tempo with incline on the treadmill? still jealous you get to run the boston course when you want.

steve: like we said, it was just a long training run. so I had to get back into things ;)

angel: I got crushed by the marathon this time around, that is why i need redemption time haha. I did plan on doing grandmas since march. Last year i did 2 fulls about 7 weeks apart and PRd by 6+ min. So hoping things will go well this time around. I still need to get time off work for the race, if not then it is off the schedule.

i have not done any of the fulls you mentioned. i have heard NYC costs even more than boton ( trip, expenses, etc. etc.) can you even get in with the lottery system?

cyhawk: the spinning helped me getting back to things. or at least made me think i was working out instead of being lazy haha.

ya, i'm starting especially conservatively this go-round. got in a run today and felt good.

and about that article, jankow (zap athlete mentioned in article) is a good guy. good to see that his training is going well. i think he's up in portland now tho.lots of talent.

My last week:

Monday - 9.4 (5 AM, 4.4 PM)

Tuesday - 0

Wednesday - 2

Thursday - 5

Friday - 0

Saturday - 3.8

Sunday - 8

Total = 28.2

Up-and-down week. Saw a physical therapist on Wednesday for my shin/anterior tibialis issues and he "adjusted" my hips and it seemed to have fixed those issues. The problem is that I went running two days before and apparently irritated something near/around my knee, and then aggravated it again on Thursday (thus the Tuesday and Fridays off)

Saturday's run felt okay but it started acting up again on Sunday after 4.5-5 miles. It seems like 5 miles is the threshold on how far I can run before it starts acting up. I am slightly encouraged by the fact that it feels pretty good after a day off, but I think I am going to follow Pablo's lead and just take a really easy week this week (I am thinking at least 3-4 days off) to get rid of this thing so I can start with a clean slate either later this week or next Monday.

For anyone that's curious, the knee pain is mostly on the outside, and after some research I think it's my IT band. Icing a lot and stretching out my quads/hamstrings to relieve pressure on the area.

Thanks to everyone for the congrats.

Lauren Fleshman didn't drink obviously but it was a Picky Bars and Team Run Eugene thing so she was there chilling. Right now i am on a tour de fat with my sister and boyfriend. I am kind of down actually because what now? A day off and I already feel out of shspe, have imposter syndrome. I want to get my half to 82-83 before I move to the full. Might do some summer all comers to work on speed but does that even make sense? I am so lost.

I am also a few beers deep

Wow, some great races!! Congrats! Especially mindblowing for me the huge PR of numbersguy - 4 minutes on a hard course? That's insane :-)

@rushed: You really look ready, great workout!

@john berryman: I will do both :P I will start out with shorter reps at goal pace on the one hand (coach told me to run k-repeats at goal pace this week), but on the other hand I will start some moderate runs that will become medium hard runs, that will become tempo runs. Finally I want to be able to run at goal pace and be able to cruise. I think it is important to train at goal pace, but to never neglect the aerobic fundamental work and the long runs as speed usually isn't the problem in a marathon.

To your own marathon-plans: Your times for the longer tempo (56:40) are much "weaker" than your times for your 4-miler (20:27). So I guess you should concentrate on quality runs, that are 6 to 10 miles in the beginning and getting progressively longer.

From the 10 mile tempo I'd say, you could be a sub 2:30 candidate! 56:40 is 2:28 pace. With proper training you could VERY WELL be able to hold that for the distance, when zou put in the miles!

Best regards

Pikachu

Thanks everyone, I do think the fact that the weather was perfect and the course was flat definitely helped, the only diadvantage if there was one was I wasy by myself for most of the race (except for those few seconds where I passed someone).

Great job to everyone else this week, especially those that also set PRs. This group is amazing and I think we all push each other to greatness without physically running together.