If hypothyroidism is so rare then why do all of Salazar's athletes getting therapeutic exemptions for it?

Canova>God wrote:

I agree that is why I am asking. I have heard of Rupp which does not seem like that big of a deal. If everyone of his athletes had it I would find that very suspicious.

One way to find out.

rupp-certified saladbar wrote:

This ^^^

But what do you think the chances are that Salazar's group will EVER make their prescriptions and TUEs public?

Despite repeated posting of the question we have had exactly zero evidence supplied that anybody in the group has a TUE for anything--much less that ALL of them take thyroid medicine.

That's my point. Thanks.

Transparency would be to the benefit of any (clean) group.

Nike: Just do it to them wrote:

Very many people get low test levels, low thyroid levels or both when subject to high volume endurance training. Should they all be treated with hormones? If they back down on the training they would be just fine, but could maybe not compete at the elite level.

DING DING DING DING DING!

)))))))))))))))@@@ wrote:

Rupp looks as though he is on PEDs. What does it take to get this guy investigated?

Some sort of credible evidence, I believe. Anonymous message board postings don't meet that standard.

Hypothyroid Runner Girl wrote:

I would love to see any studies exploring hypothyroidism frequency in endurance athletes. I was hit with the condition during a period of increased training load. I went from running 70-80 mpw to not being able to tolerate even a few miles at several min/mi slower than my normal easy run pace.

Personally, I would simply be happy if the medication could bring me back to my former normal. Perhaps the benefit to Salazar’s hypothyroid athletes, is their access to top endocrinologists and constant monitoring?

wow. this could be me...but, it runs in my family so i never considered it could be due running until i started reading here. in fact, when my sister was diagnosed i was all "not gonna happen to me cause i'm fit'. i suspect it went on for around 4 years. i suspect that the longer it goes undiagnosed, the more damage it causes. i was able to come back but it wasn't till i was in my 40s that i finally felt like i could train hard again, and then it's all downhill anyway.

interesting idea about the top guys having access to better docs. see this thread. there are some thoughts that you need to maintain a TSH of 1.00 in order to train but there's no research.

noname wrote:

interesting idea about the top guys having access to better docs. see this thread. there are some thoughts that you need to maintain a TSH of 1.00 in order to train but there's no research.

I hope you're not serious.

Generally, the goal of thyroid supplementation is a steady state that's sufficient to keep thyoid-stimulating hormone (TSH) in the normal range: under 4.0, or under 3.0. (These references vary due to endless argumentation in the field over what "normal" is. There is little or no evidence for treating more agressively than this.

In pregnancy, we aim to keep TSH lower still, under 2.5, because it's been shown to have neurological benefits for the developing infant.

Treating with enough supplemental thyroxin to push TSH down to 1.0 seems crazy. That is closer to HYPERthyroid than hypothyroid. If a patient had a heart attack due to arrythmia on this dosage, they'd have a very real case against the prescribing doctor.

It's disturbing that this is being shopped to runners, who no doubt are tired and love the extra energy that inappropriately high thyoid supplemtation is sure to provide. Makes me wonder about the "treatment goals" of runners using this. Since this is a "grey area" as described by Salazar, maybe some would make their tests public for the sake of transparency?

"Better docs," indeed. What do these "better docs" say the optimal free testosterone level is to train as a sprinter? Because you definitely want to get enough of that.

rupp-certified saladbar wrote:

Gamera wrote:

If a list of who took what TUEs was made available, it would help avoid threads like these (or alternately, it would justify their existence).

Fans are sick of being taken for idiots by athletes and their coaches. A little transparency would be nice, and if there is nothing to see, it would help stop rumors like these from swirling.

But what do you think the chances are that Salazar's group will EVER make their prescriptions and TUEs public?

It would take quite a bit to get this through. Take a look at the HIPAA requirements.

Salazar athletes with thyroid issues:

Adam Goucher

Galen Rupp

Dathan Ritzenhein

Amy Yoder-Begley

Mo Farah?

Source on Ritz, AYB, and Farah?

Once I started running 140 mpw, my body started to break down, my immune system deteriorsted, I had low energy and I wasn't recovering from workouts sufficiently.

It was determined that I needed to go on medication just to get my body back to normal so that all of the above no longer occurred.

The symptoms of hypothyroidism look scarily similar to the symptoms of over-training.

Constipation, sensitivity to cold, menstrual problems, joint pain, paleness or dried skin, depression, weakness.

I don't disagree with you. It's not being "shopped" to runners but it's been discussed on the board among runners who were diagnosed hypothyroid and 1.0 TSH is not as crazy as it sounds.

T3 decreases with increasing amount of exercise time (see brooks, fahey, White exercise science book) but comes back to normal with rest. Say you have a TSH of 4.5 and you run for 2 hrs, then come back the next day and run another couple of hours. The T3 has dropped but not returned to normal levels which could send the TSH to 6+ because the thyroid glad is not working properly. Now take same scenario for runner who has a TSH of 1.0 with an underactive thyroid. The exercise drops the T3 but the TSH stays the normal range.

My thought is that it wouldn't make sense for someone who is not hypothyroid because if the thyroid glad is working normally, a 3.0 would be just fine because with recovery, the T3 would return to normal. Supplementation would likely make this runner hyperthyroid.

I am not a clinician. I just became very interested in this topic once i was diagnosed. This graph made me think that exercise increases the demand on the thyroid and i, and active people need to be on a high enough dose of thyroxine to stay on the low end of the normal range for TSH. Since i've kept it below around 2.0 or so i've been able to train normally.

Boring .... Rupp=YAWN; I dont care; when the truth comes out we will free of NOP & AlSal/Rupp.... Yawn

My wife had/has a steroid inhaler because she is a legit asthma type. Her arms are super buffed out. It's amazing and everyone always comments on her guns. I doubt if she will ever stop sucking on that inhaler as she glows with pride when people point out her physique. A sub 2:50 marathoner as well. If she ever hit a trials qualifying time she would have to get a medical waiver. Sometimes I think the stuff has gone to her brain..but that's another thread..

Serious question - how would you get around HIPAA laws and disclose TUEs?

I don't think athletes could be required to disclose. But I imagine it could be something like tax return disclosure for politicians. Somebody with nothing to hide might make public their "TUE list" (assuming such a thing exists). They might challenge others to do so. Those who refused would look like they had something to hide. I bet someone like Paula Radcliffe, who seemed to be pretty vociferous about making her blood available for testing now and anytime in the future, would go along with something like that. If some big names like that got on board, it might catch on.

rupp-certified saladbar wrote:

That's my point. Thanks.

Transparency would be to the benefit of any (clean) group.

No, your point is to display your ignorance and dishonesty on the web. To play your little games and to smear people you don't know, from a cloak of anonymity. Your methods are disingenuous and are not fooling any of the intelligent folk refuting you.

Your argument is destroyed in one sentence: Displaying what all the athletes have for TUE's would be an invasion of their privacy.

Based on previous experience, it appears beyond your level of intelligence and complex reasoning to think through that privacy is an issue.

Do you think you have the right to know what runner is HIV positive? Do you have a right to know what female athletes are on birth control pills? How about an unmarried African female athlete, training in the USA, with a TUE for birth control pills? Could you see the privacy issue there?

Ever read a message board in Africa on a rape case? The posts are flooded by men blaming the unmarried female victim/s for being whores having sex. Even raped married women are blamed. One can only imagine what could happen to an unmarried African female athlete where it is posted on the web that she uses birth control pills at school in the USA (could be for cycle regulation), upon her return home to the village...

There are reasons for privacy.

jx10 wrote:My wife had/has a steroid inhaler because she is a legit asthma type. Her arms are super buffed out...

- people with asthma take corticosteroids

- people who want to develop muscles take anabolic steroids.

Even though some of the letters are the same, those are two different things. Corticosteroids do not promote muscle growth. Your wife is either just naturally built, or is sneaking some hardcore ergogenics behind your back.

And a quick note about the odd individual who posts as rupp-certified saladbar. Is it reasonable to pose questions about what sort of legal substances the Salazar group is taking? Sure. But if you post several dozen times on a thread on that topic... AND over the same few days, you post literally dozens of times on threads arguing that a 3:50 mile isn't that impressive, and that is should really be rounded up to 3:51, and that Rupp should have been disqualified because Salazar called out splits, and all the other threads you've been spamming -- then it becomes clear that you're in the grips of a truly irrational hate of Rupp and Salazar. You should try stepping away from Letsrun for a few days. Ask yourself: how many times have you posted since Rupp's mile. Do you think that's healthy?