We have seen some great college XC courses created in recent years like the U of Washington. Nike needs to step up if they want to keep the NXN in Portland and create a real course that is equal to a national championship. And yes this means real hills and ... drainage. Phil Knight needs to tell the Ducks they get one less uniform and helmet next year and pay for a course to get built.
Sorry - meant U of Wisconsin.
Are you serious? Any great XC runner looks forward to conditions to put them to the test. If our runners are so soft that they need hard pan golf courses for XC, then they don't understand the sport.
Who woulda' thunk it? It is ok to run XC in rain, sleet, snow, and any other conditions. Seems a few wussies around here need to nut up, or find another sport to whine about.
The kid gets it. After this race, he grew up. Great story and should put whiney LR posters in their place. http://www.youngsaintlouis.com/archive/current/kids/story4.shtml
Raptured wrote:
Yeah, that 1st K split was absurd. Umm, no.
Also, I like how Rupp was talking about how it's awesome that there is "finally a national championship" and that he wished it had been around when he was in HS! Dude has sold out!
I'll give Rupp some benefit of the doubt and assume he was talking about the team aspect. If memory serves, his HS team was really good.
Toughness Shows wrote:
Are you serious? Any great XC runner looks forward to conditions to put them to the test. If our runners are so soft that they need hard pan golf courses for XC, then they don't understand the sport.
You guys are missing our point.
We're not necessarily looking for an easy course, we're just looking for a legit cross country course.
This is cross country running. Not the most extreme elimination challenge.
I have no issues with mud, hills (instead of whoopdie do's), streams (not at NXN), trees (not at NXN), trails (not at NXN), natural obstacles (instead of hay bales),snow, rain, etc.
Our team embraces tough NATURAL conditions.
We're not about the easy courses. The Northeast Regional at Wappinger Falls New York was a steady climb to the halfway point in fields, trails, rocks, etc. and then followed by a series of sharp downhills. Not an easy course but a great course none the less.
The conditions at NXN are completely artificial. That's my problem with it.
Here is an idea for next year. Nike could have the race at the Superdome after a monster truck event. You can have select people from the crowd enter a lottery for a chance to wear Nike swag and shoot the runners with super soakers or volleyballs as they pass by each obstacle. That would be fun and that is all that matters here. Having fun and marketing. Hey, suck it up! Don't complain because everyone is in the same race facing the same conditions!
I have no doubt the kids involved had a great time and I would and will take my kids if we make it. I'm not going to deny them the opportunity to compete at that level because of my view of their course. However, I will make my opinion known to Nike for what it's worth (probably not much) in hopes that if enough people complain they might consider changing things around.
All of this being said. If Footlocker changed its venue to have a team championship that is where my team would compete next year. If New Balance added to their National Championships in track by including a team championship for XC then we would be there. Again, there is only one game in town for a program like mine. I feel like we have the right to complain about it and express our opinion that we don't like our sport to be redefined this way.
Agree with Otter's posts.
It's not all or nothing or wimp/tough guy as some Nike defenders are trying to make it out to be with this course. If this happened due to some freak event of nature, then it would be fine, but every year the question becomes just how bad will the course conditions be? That's a major problem with the course if you find that happening on a regular basis.
A tough but fair layout of varied terrain is the best option. Nike has the funds and the resources to deliver that to the runners.
This ^
The other day when I was in the local Nike outlet store, they had shirts for sale (and the staff was wearing these shirts) that said, "Every Damn Day."
Okay, Nike, I get it now; the light just went on for me. Every day, 365 days a year, I'm going to find a way to drive home the message to somebody that we don't want a gimmick course.
If you don't provide it for a team national championship race, eventually someone else will. I know of about 20 top-tier teams right now that would jump ship in a heartbeat if the option was there.
Every Damn Day, Nike (your choice of words, not mine).
If Footlocker opened a team portion next year, my team would switch immediately. Nike is fun, but does not show who the best teams or individuals are on that course. It shows who is the most prepared to run in the slop. Nike will be losing top individuals like Baxter after this season as the course creates too much of chance of a poor race than say Footlocker.
What's the fastest anyone has ever run at Portland Meadows?
Futsum Z last year with a 15:03.
I know they've changed the course layout several times, but based on the winning times over the 9 year history, it probably breaks down into 3 groupings in terms of course conditions.
Course in pretty decent shape: 2011 (15:03), 2009 (15:09.2), 2008 (15:13.6)
Course in OK/not terrible shape: 2007 (15:39.8), 2004 (15:43.9), 2010 (15:59.2) - probably belongs closer to the next grouping but had huge talents Verzbicas and Cheserek running in that one.
Course in subpar/awful shape: 2005 (16:25.8), 2006 (16:26.9), 2012 (17:06)
To put things in perspective, this year's winner was about 40 seconds slower than the previous slowest winning time.
So, on average every 3 year cycle will see the course in good, fair and poor shape one time each.
This is a national title and it should be a fair fight. The girls race went how people thought it would where the guys had to run last when the course was completely wrecked and it was no where near how people predicted. Why? because teams that didn't have guys fall(multiple times), or lose a shoe, or choke on mud got lucky and finished well. I'm not one to say that a race came down to luck but at NXN it did. Guys who train all season to run their fastest that day couldn't and that is why things need to change
I think the boys race was a travesty. If I had an individual athlete that was fast enough to choose which one to qualify for, I would certainly encourage them to pick FL from this point on. That NXN course is a freaking joke! Sad to see kids waste their national championships on this "party."
You may not realize this, but rupps high school team was pretty good. They would likely have competed at nxn. He probably means that he wishes he could have competed with his team at nationals vs competing by himself. He may have had a teammate with him at footlocker, but cant remember. Look at the 2003 oregon state meet results to see his central catholic team. You may recognize a few names.
Toughness shows, no one who has posted to point out the flaws in the NXN course is looking for a hard pan golf course. The artificial course in the middle of a horse track is a joke even in good conditions. You want a representative xc course, then we need to run on varied conditions with natural obstacles. The Portland Meadows course cheapens the effort and dedication of the kids that participate there. They run at Portland Meadows because it is relatively easy for Nike to pull the event off there. I appreciate that Nike has stepped up to provide a team championship but if they are going to take this on then don't hold the event at a sub-par facility.