Evidence? EVIDENCE???
The only evidence there is: results!
Coolsaet is a great example. Dude is treated like a world-class athlete in Canada, DST is treated like a genius, when they can't even beat a national record from 1975 (and a soft record at it too).
Waster of time wrote:
Evidence? EVIDENCE???
The only evidence there is: results!
Coolsaet is a great example. Dude is treated like a world-class athlete in Canada, DST is treated like a genius, when they can't even beat a national record from 1975 (and a soft record at it too).
I sort of laugh at that as well. That said, they are closer than anyone else lately.
john eh wrote:
Waster of time wrote:DST is seriously overrated. He's just a "star" because Canadian running is terrible. Being the best Canadian really doesn't mean anything.
Your opinion is valid, but I would like to see some evidence to back it up. How many US coaches qualified multiple distance athletes to the olympics?
Off the top of my head, American coaches and coaches base in the US with multiple 2012 Oly qualifiers are: Schumacher, Salazar, Rowland, Treacy, Cook, Wetmore, Lannana (kind of) and Mahon (based in US at the time). That's a good collection of coaches and should give you some perspective on the numbers.
None of whom work with a budget smaller than a D-3 school
Off the top of my head, American coaches and coaches base in the US with multiple 2012 Oly qualifiers are: Schumacher, Salazar, Rowland, Treacy, Cook, Wetmore, Lannana (kind of) and Mahon (based in US at the time). That's a good collection of coaches and should give you some perspective on the numbers.
no one here is judging DST and his program by Canadian standards
the fact is he has put together a really good mid D and Distance program at both the collegiate and post collegiate levels that compares with some of the best programs in the states.
This has been done with very little resources (and very recently no proper indoor or outdoor track), while recruiting from a much smaller talent pool than US coaches have, with very little scholarship money, NO full rides (in fact in Ontario no athlete is allowed to recieve more than $4,000 in athletic shcolarships)
I know those of you who are arguing the value of this program's success don't actually know the gravity of what that all means, but to put it simply:
DST is an excellent coach and Levins will benefit greatly from having his guidance
DST's Nuuuts wrote:
None of whom work with a budget smaller than a D-3 school
You Canucks keep moving the goal posts in this thread. You wanted a list of US coaches that produced multiple Olympians, and I provided that. Now you want to cite resources. Bottom line is that we are talking about different playing fields.
Sounds to me like some of the circumstantial components probably hurt this coach while others help the recruiting and levels of competition for athletes from spinning out of control, as is par for the course here in the US.
If you want compare apples to apples, how many Speed River athletes would have qualified for the Games over any US counterpart in the same event, sponsorship, resources and pedigree aside?
Coolsaet ran just under 2:11 and Gillis just under 2:11:30 in Toronto last year in terribly windy conditions. Having two athletes that close to the record under those circumstances has got to be worth something. London wasn't a good opportunity either with all those turns (only the 3 medalists ran faster than the Canadian record). So you can't say either of them had a fair opportunity to break that record, although they would have likely done so on a fast course with good conditions.
guelphrunner wrote:
Coolsaet ran just under 2:11 and Gillis just under 2:11:30 in Toronto last year in terribly windy conditions. Having two athletes that close to the record under those circumstances has got to be worth something.
Nope. It's not worth anything. 2:11, christ, can't you see how pathetic that is????
A standard is not pathetic in any event.
And its you who keeps moving the yardsticks. People here said that DST is an excellent coach because he takes runners to the elite level, whether he got them when they were almost there, or he took them all the way. There are VERY few programs in the US who can boast this. The fact that he does this with a smaller talent pool/less resources simply emphasizes his ability.
You have now said that having less resources could in ways help the program...which can be easily proved WRONG when you try and find a program in the US with a similar budget that is anywhere NEAR as good.
There are no runner's in Canada that would've made the American team. That still doesn't say anything about the fact that Speed River/Guelph is comparable to any top NCAA/US training group
Americans are faster overall...you are the best country in the world at Track and Field.
But there is a group in Canada that is keeping up because they have excellent coaches
This year DST coached four Olympians, who generally have less financial incentive to train with him than with some of the larger American centres. Most of the arguments here are pointing out the obvious that there are other training groups that have more depth in terms of elites (ex. Salazar or Schumacher). This is irrelevant, though, because with Levins in Utah he'll be working out alone anyways. If he ever wants a stronger training group, he may consider one of those groups, but for now we should let him be coached by whoever he's comfortable with. It seems to be working.
I have a few hazy memories from the good old days:
1. Rick Schroeder (sp?) was coach at Guelph when DST was at Queen's. I don't remember if someone else coached them in between.
2. Guelph had decent but not great teams in the early 90s, but some outstanding individual runners (i.e. Kathy Butler).
3. Dave tried out the club-school model at Queen's, anyone else remember those QUACK singlets? I don't know how much (if at all) this contributed to troubles with admin.
4. Before getting to handle top recruits, DST had a pretty good line in getting no-name, no-talent high schoolers to progress from running 36-37 10K to 32-33 (or faster).
Both Speed River marathoners posted times in Toronto that would get them top 10 at US Olympic trials. Now I realize that 2:11 is a slow marathon time for many of you, but but are there that many US training groups with two faster?
Hard to say if any one coach is the right fit for any one athlete, but Dave at his best is an empowering, inspiring coach.
Both Speed River marathoners posted times in Toronto that would get them top 10 at US Olympic trials. Now I realize that 2:11 is a slow marathon time for many of you, but but are there that many US training groups with two faster?
Yes.
is this list missing anyone? Thats a serious question because i'm curious about these rankings
Waster of time wrote:
Both Speed River marathoners posted times in Toronto that would get them top 10 at US Olympic trials. Now I realize that 2:11 is a slow marathon time for many of you, but but are there that many US training groups with two faster?
Yes.
Such as?
"His 10,000m personal best of 27:27.96 is the second fastest Canadian time and fastest NCAA time in history."
So was Sam Chalenga just a dream?
the development for some of these athletes has more to do with their club coaches in toronto and london. makes more sense to compare the last yr or two for brett, gillis, jackson, boorsma, winter, watson, milne, etc. as they were more truly developed by dst, not just recently recruited for school
I can't believe the haters on this board. How many of you have ever had the opportunity to sit down and have a beer with DST? He's an amazing coach and person.
Success breeds success. He gets many of the best in Canada because he's the best.
Dennis Fairall, University of Windsor, was coach of the year 38 times in Ontario and Canada.
"In his 26 seasons with the Lancers, Fairall's teams have captured an amazing 23 Canadian University Cross Country and Track and Field Championships (18 track and field, 5 cross country), in addition to the 43 Ontario University championships (36 track and field, 7 cross country).
His teams have also won 19 of the past 20 provincial championships in men’s track and field, and 4 of the past 5 championships in women’s track and field."
Oh please. Nobody who understands the Canadian university athletics scene would cite track and field titles as evidence of anything.