Coe's multipaced 800m-1500m training.

Anaerobic threshold is a misnomer. There was a long thread about this with considerable contribution from the man himself Tim Noakes.

At this suposed intensity, the energy contributions are still mostly aerobic, because oxygen uptake will continue to rise.

Yes the anaerobic contribution to energy delivery is higher at higher intensities such as 1500/300/5000m paces than at marathon pace, but so is the aerobic contribution also.

Funny, you still cannot answer a question I asked. What pace traditionally is anaerobic threshold at? What pace traditionally do (elite runners included) run at when they do threshold runs? Just answer the question.

basic physiology wrote:

I don't care what the book says. The chart is wrong.

No one gives a fuc what you think.

The OP wanted to know what Peter Coe - coach of 2 time olympic 1500m champion Seb Coe had to say. Not what some random poster over the internet thinks.

gguygtuv wrote:

Funny, you still cannot answer a question I asked. What pace traditionally is anaerobic threshold at? What pace traditionally do (elite runners included) run at when they do threshold runs? Just answer the question.

Traditionally it is about the pace you could sustain for an hour. Look at any Daniels calculator and it is roughly the T pace. Alternatively, maybe 30 sec per mile slower than 5k pace.

It is a good training pace. Do 25-30min at this pace and good stuff happens, but you can be largely recovered the next day.

clearing the bs up wrote:

basic physiology wrote:

So you're saying that a marathon is anaerobic? According to the definition you post it must be?

Do you not see the problem here. There is certainly some BS to be cleared up, but you can't or won't do it.

Moron

Get the fu*k out of here

You're wrong

period

I wrote what Peter Coe wrote exactly as it appears in 2 of his books - one that he wrote by himself, not with David Martin.

These are what Peter Coe means when he uses these terms - which was the OP's question - and is all that matters

now fu*k off

imbecile

Oh hi there Ventolin!

Yet another childish comment from you. Grow the f*ck up.

'800 pace - you tick this box with strides, warmup for other track sessions'

Rubbish!

Martin's designations of "anaerobic capacity training", etc. are headache inducing to remember and have never been used by any other author or coach, for good reason.

Five pace training gives a more practical reference for interval/fartlek work, but is not "all embracing" as Horwill tries to hawk.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

'800 pace - you tick this box with strides, warmup for other track sessions'

Rubbish!

Yup. He doesn't have a clue either. I think we're dealing with road race types here who don't want to work very hard trying to comment on the training of world class middle distance people.

From Peter Coe's USATF Level III lecture in the USA:

5K Pace: 4X1500 or 3X2000

3K Pace: 8X800 (omitted in winter)

1500 Pace: 16X200

800 Pace: 4-6X400 (120+% Vo2max)

400 Pace: 2X300, 4X200, 4X100

We aren't talking about "ticking" a pace during warmups. We are talking about TRAINING. And this is the line that they will REALLY hate around here:

The 5K pace is golden. It eradicates the need for big mileage.

--Peter Coe

And the folks who really don't want to discuss this kind of training probably don't want to set foot in Salazar's camp.

Well, yes Coe didn't run big mileage, but he wasn't running low mileage either. When you consider the speed he had, he was doing some serious endurance work. Although the story of his 10 mile training run in three quarters of an hour is just a story, I have no doubt that he could have run a local 10 mile road race in low 47 minutes during the winter of 78-79

ukathleticscoach wrote:

'800 pace - you tick this box with strides, warmup for other track sessions'

Rubbish!

This isn't a homework assignment- we're trying to figure out what training is best not "tick" a box..

basic physiology wrote:

Well, yes Coe didn't run big mileage, but he wasn't running low mileage either. When you consider the speed he had, he was doing some serious endurance work. Although the story of his 10 mile training run in three quarters of an hour is just a story, I have no doubt that he could have run a local 10 mile road race in low 47 minutes during the winter of 78-79

His running 45 mins for 10 miles isn't a story as such. It was documented in his first biography by David Miller. Just how accurate the length of the course was or what sort of course it was is another matter. It possibly was slightly short and it was probably 45 mins and bits, but it certainly wasn't a.made up "story".

ukathleticscoach wrote:

'800 pace - you tick this box with strides, warmup for other track sessions'

Rubbish!

Only just saw this. ukathleticscoach, are you suggesting Coe did full track sessions at 800 pace sessions regularly through the winter? Where is your evidence?

eurodonkey wrote:

ukathleticscoach wrote:

'800 pace - you tick this box with strides, warmup for other track sessions'

Rubbish!

Only just saw this. ukathleticscoach, are you suggesting Coe did full track sessions at 800 pace sessions regularly through the winter? Where is your evidence?

Peter Coe said it himself. There is an interview with both Coe and Horwill on the British Milers Club website, where Peter said that Seb ran 4 of the 5 paces all season. He dropped only the 3K pace session in winter.

Sorry, hit the button too early.

Peter Coe's books say that the five pace stuff kicked in from March to May. I don't dispute that he had hard sessions at each of those paces in spring. In fact I know it bloody well, because I was cannon fodder for some of them in the late 1980s.

But the references to 'staying in touch with all the paces' through the winter do NOT mean he was rotating through all those track sessions every fortnight from October to March. Prior to that he went for runs, did a lot of 5k pace reps (and who doesn't), and did quite a lot of 'mixed pace' sessions. Early in his career you have the on demand fartleks in the books. Later on there were grass sessions weekly combining reps at a huge range of paces, where I guess you could say all 'five paces' got ticked at some point in the morning.

Peter Coe's philosophy may have been 'never to get too far from speed' but I don't think Seb's WINTER training was that remarkably different from other mid distance runners, with the exception of the weights, and the year or two at Loughborough deliberately trying to improve sprint speed. One thing that really came through reading "Running my life" (great book BTW) is how much time he spend hanging around with weightlifters.

coach d wrote:

As for the real training, when Coe and Horwill were both alive, there used to be an interview available at the British Milers Club with the two of them, where Peter Coe said that Seb did 4 of the 5 paces year-round, only dropping the 3K pace in winter. This is where the real emphasis should be: 400 pace, 800 pace, 1500 pace, 3K pace, and 5K pace for someone racing 800-3K over a season

Pages 11-13

Peter Coe says came up with multi-tier training.

Not a Coach wrote:

Peter Coe says came up with multi-tier training.

As I recall, Frank Horwill came up with his "5 Pace Training" program around 1965-66, which was before Peter and Seb came on to the scene.

To put things delicately, anyone who has ever tried (or even read through) a Horwill plan will understand why Peter Coe modified what Horwill had. Just like Aouita modified Coe's training (because he couldn't handle Seb's short recovery times) to faster paces with double the recovery (at least according to Horwill).

basic physiology wrote:

No, I don't have a PhD. Jack Daniels has a PhD in this very subject. Do you think he refers to marathon pace as anearobic conditioning.

Daniels Running Formula, Chapter 6, Table 7.1.

deanouk wrote:

His running 45 mins for 10 miles isn't a story as such. It was documented in his first biography by David Miller. Just how accurate the length of the course was or what sort of course it was is another matter. It possibly was slightly short and it was probably 45 mins and bits, but it certainly wasn't a.made up "story".

It was almost nine and a half miles, and he was gone for three quarters of an hour. Witnessed by someone else.

RAC wrote:

basic physiology wrote:

No, I don't have a PhD. Jack Daniels has a PhD in this very subject. Do you think he refers to marathon pace as anearobic conditioning.

Daniels Running Formula, Chapter 6, Table 7.1.

Does he refer to marathon pace as anaerobic conditioning?