MORE IMPRESSIVE by high school female: 2:00.91 GOLD medal or 4:11.01 6th place at World Jrs?

Your comment proves my point. You go to the IAAF and the times equivalents in the 800m is over a second yet you say they are in the same ballpark, the comparison/equivalent in the 1500m is over 2.5 seconds.

YES both young ladies are extremely talented and the younger Mary Cain have a chance to break many more HSR in the next two years; however, in the month of July 2012 Ajee had the better performance and recieved less coverage. That's the only point I'm making and some other posters and myself wonder WHY?

I love Mary Cain and would like to share her 1500m World Junior 1500m final.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bizYesRYzN4

Just because we're fans of Mary Cain doesn't mean we can't give Ajee Wilson her due props for her Gold Medal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvPL-ioblEM

I looked up the list and added Price in after Wilson because someone here said that Price ran just a hair slower and I put a question mark on her time because I did not know it. The 1500m's more competitive than the 800m; it is deeper. We have 4 current women who have been or are medal contenders at 1500m with last year's world #1 and two other medal winners on the team. Moreover, endurance develops later, making a high schooler on the senior lists at 1500m better than one on the lists at 800m. But the Gallagher comparison works pretty well. Gallagher ran almost a second faster than Wilson at 800m, while Cain ran 5.6 seconds faster at 1500m than Gallagher. And Cain is barely off Wilson's pace at 800m anyway. Had Cain run that same race, she might have run 2:01 or 2:02, at an age two years younger. There's no doubt that Cain's the better prospect.

Just because some of you are suggesting that 2:00.91 is on another planet from 2:03.34, I hope that Cain runs another 800m in Europe and then we'll see. She's been close to Wilson's times in the 8 the whole year.

But honestly, if you ignore age, the performance of the meet by an American was Ashley Spencer's 50.50, the fastest time by a junior in the world since Richards in 2004 and sixth fastest of all time. The 400m is much more competitive than the 800m and 50.50 can frequently make or come close to making the American team, and is within about a half second or so of medaling at World and Olympic senior races.

Wilson deserves her props, no doubt about it. She will contend for many U.S. teams if she does not burn out, and she does not need to improve much at all to contend. In fact, with a decent improvement curve from 18 to 25, she will stand a shot at world senior medals as long as dopers, mostly from the Eastern Bloc, and biological intersex athletes like semenya (predicting a WR now) and probably Jelimo don't steal all the places on the podium.

Both young ladies deserve mention, Mary Cain has did a superb job considering the field she faced. Ajee Wilson did the same nearly breaking 2 minutes. Remember as it is said a record is borrowed (it will broken one day.. likely) while a medal is forever.

Does this board have small minded people, you bet, just like all boards over the internet (especially in summer when kids are home). The moderators on this board, on the other hand can do what they want and publicize what ever they want, it is their private endeavor, we can not demand a black page for athlete A or B or C, it up to them, if you do not like it, you can go to another forum, sad but true.

Back to the subject at hand, both the ladies have a great futures with tough competition, it does not matter whether we think some competitors (usual suspects, Kenya, Ethiopia etc) were older than they claim, at senior level this ladies will face them and those countries have an enviable record. So, we shall evaluate them according to the circumstances and be unbiased for a moment. In the Global scheme of things, the American High School Record matters as much as the Canadian High School Record and as Much as the Mongolian High School Record and if they keep one, as much as the Maldives High School Record,it is for local consumption and relevance it does not matter to the world beyond the national borders.

On the world stage, if you can win a championship that shows you can hang through the heats, beat the nerves and beat you supposed peers (Cue Kenya, Ethiopia age cheating etc). So, Ajee was more impressive by winning at a world championship, it was not a high school event this one.

Mary Cain might turn out to be a better athlete in the end, we will know at the end of their careers, but, at this moment in time you can never ever speculate where an athlete will end (e.g. Hassay, Kaki used to be better than Rudisha etc)

My point exactly!

What I don't get is all these people saying that Cain's record is so great and better or as good as a medal, a Gold medal at that.

Ummm... are these the same guys saying that Rupp's AR at the 10k doesn't mean anything because he hasn't medaled at WC or Oly? Seems kind of contradictory to me.

On almost every other post I read on this board it's all about the medals. So in this case it should be all about the medal's too.

Gold > Silver > Bronze > AJR.

So....

Wilson > Cain.

End of thread.

American Juniors historically have never medaled in an event longer than 400 meters at the WJC's. The first medalists over 400 were Loxsom and Andrews in the 800 in 2010 (silver and bronze).

Ajee just did what no other American Junior has ever done. Even if it wasn't a high school record, it's an accomplishment that no other American Junior has ever accomplished.

As was noted earlier, the IAAF scoring tables (which are the most official was to compare times between events other than OPINION) show Ajee's mark to be equivalent to 4:08.xx which is faster than the American Junior record of 4:09.10 by Suzy Favor, and Cain's 4:11.

A lot of you seem to be arguing the POTENTIAL of Mary Cain which makes a lot of sense considering how fast she has run so young, but potential only goes so far. If you are strictly comparing the two marks from this championship, Ajee's mark is stronger in too many ways for this even to be a debate. Ajee's mark is stronger by comparison of time, she also did something that an american junior has never done, and is walking away an international champion in back to back years. I'd also be willing to bet that she is on a very short list of athletes from any country to who have successfully defended World Youth titles at the Junior level in any event, not just the women's 800.

Cain and Ajee both have a bright future, but those making the "shoulda coulda woulda" arguments for Cain about running in outside lanes etc, is just an excuse and shows a lack of maturity and sound racing tactics on her part that Ajee has a much better grasp of at this point in her career.

Also, if you look at the current IAAF performance list for the season, Ajee is 67th in the world and Cain is somewhere in the 120's. As far as juniors go, Ajee is ranked 3rd and Cain is 9th

Neither were particularly impressive. Jess Judd did far better getting a silver medal in a new PB 2:00.96 and then finishing fifth in another PB 4:09.93 after running three days of 800m and still eligible at the next WJC.

Let's explore age grading for a moment.

A 16 year old running 4:11.01 is the equivalent of an 18 year old running 4:06. Since Wilson's 800 does not equate to a 4:06, it could be argued that Cain's is more impressive. If we are going by time alone, we have to consider age, and that puts Cain's performance as the more impressive.

However, I think a gold medal in any event trumps a national record in any event. So for me, Wilson's performance takes the cake.

In summary:

Cain's TIME is more impressive.

Wilson's RACE is more impressive.

In Letsrunworld, it depends on the skin color of the respective athletes

wdude wrote:

You're failing to realize that Cain broke a record in an event that is prominent in women's track and field by 3 and a half seconds.. if it's softer how's come Kim Gallagher never ran a 4:11.01 in HS? I give Wilson all of her due.. but she's been winning big races for a while now and already won gold in the World Youth last year. Plus Cain is almost 3 years younger. She will absolutely trash a 2:00.91 by the time she graduates.

What Mary did was very impressive, but you have to use Kim's 800m time for any type of real comparison. Kim never got a legitimate shot at running as fast mile. Kim ran as part of H.S. team that had very good relays and she tripled at just about every meet. Kim was a racer and generally ran whatever time it took to win and her 800m AJR is just about the only time she focused on one event and ran for time. Without a doubt, if Kim had run a mile in the summer of 1982, the record would have been at least 4:12, which is what she said herself; Bart, her brother and coach said Kim could have run under 4:10 if she ran the mile in an open race in the summer of 1982.

I certainly don't want to take anything away from Mary Cain either because she has made the record look more legit. 4:11 is about where the record should be when you look at the fact that Suzy Hamilton ran 4:09 as college freshman and I think she was still only 18 at the time. Also, Canada, Great Britain and Australia has had H.S. school age athletes run 4:11 or better. (The previous record was relatively weak.)

In terms of which of which accomplishment is the most impressive, I don't think there a legitimate argument that it was Wilson’s performance if for no other reason than she won her race. Winning an 800m gold medal against international competition very big deal. With that said, I think this is an unnecessary thread, which I only responded to because of the reference to Kim Gallagher who we have to remember ran those times over 30 years ago. Also, Mary Cain has 3 more opportunities to compete in the WJ meet and I hope she can eventually get the 1500m record down to about 4:08, which would put it on par with the 800m record.

Judd, did well, and I think she is going to be a superstar, but this thread was comparing two American athletes, hence the title "RE: MORE IMPRESSIVE by high school female: 2:00.91 GOLD medal or 4:11.01 6th place at World Jrs?"

runningjames wrote:

Neither were particularly impressive. Jess Judd did far better getting a silver medal in a new PB 2:00.96 and then finishing fifth in another PB 4:09.93 after running three days of 800m and still eligible at the next WJC.

Rupp fan wrote:

I have asked this twice already. Is Ajee Wilson's gold the first ever in the distance events at World Juniors? I believe it is. In fact, I can't even think of any US distance runners who have medaled.

No, Kim Gallagher did it in 1982 and she set what was the world jr record at that time.

I respect your (and others) opinions, but Ajee Wilsons time is much more competitive on the womans world stage than Mary Cain´s. If you need proof, just look at the Londaon Grand Prix results and see where each of them would have placed against the senior women.

jessica judd beat mary cain she did not beat wilson talk about impressive take a look at judd 1500 & 800

jessica judd beat mary cain she did not beat wilson talk about impressive take a look at judd 1500 & 800

jessica judd beat mary cain she did not beat wilson talk about impressive take a look at judd 1500 & 800

jessica judd beat mary cain she did not beat wilson talk about impressive take a look at judd 1500 & 800