Paris Meet All DOPED UP

Why are you complaining? The whole track has been a joke since the introduction of EPO in mid-90's, but hey, we just have all those great performances! Furthermore, with the introduction of SARMs, GW501516, Aicar etc., a new great era is coming! I observe it very clearly during the last 1-2 years.

I dont know much about distance runners progression but i do know about sprinters. As we all know, the faster you are the harder it is to drop huge amounts of time. Please look at all of the top 100,200,and 400 meter runners of all countries progressions. It speaks for itself. I feel like we have 2 sides of the drug arguement, people that no matter what evidence they are shown they will believe no one is juicing and on the other hand we have people that believe everyone is juicing. All of the big time runners are heavily supplimented, i dont know if its ped's or not but its more than water,gatorade and vitamins thats for sure

You're right that Jelimo could have gotten the record and my expectation was that that would happen the following year. 1:54.01 the first year? But the Jelimo situation was similar to the Mutola/Semenya situations, in my view. These are testosterone outliers, probably all intersex. That record is still insanely tough for a woman with normal hormone levels to get anywhere near, as proven by the yearly bests and identity of the sub 1:57s.

Oh, I'm an idiot because I catch you on the fact that you condemn their training as soft when you know nothing about how they train. An idiot pulls comments out of his arse without any evidence. The fact that the top 1500m women runners are far, far from the 800m record is suggestive of why their times are so far from the 1500m record, of course. Both records are so doped up or gender confused, it is unbelievable. See the stories about the Chinese women that I linked somewhere in the past couple days: why Ma's distance runners were dropped from the Sydney Olympic team: EPO and other drugs.

ventolin^3 wrote:

jjjjjjj wrote:what training do the top women 1500m do? put up or drop this topic where you are uncharacteristically ignorant.

apologies

meant to say speed is king - meaning some proper 800 speed for 1500

coe went 1'41, cram 1'42.8, baala/asbel 1'43.1, noah 1'44.6 split in 1k

i can't find 1 current women 1500 runner who has shown/potentially shown, 800 speed within ~ 2s of the current 1'53.2wr

recent women 1500 runners don't have 800 speed of male 1500 runners ( asbel/baala are recent )

they don't seem to offer much better than 1'59, nearly 7s outside wr, compared to 2s for male

that indicates to me that women's 1500 times CAN'T be same calibre as men - they don't have the 800 speed - even silas/gus have gone 1'44 -> 3s+ of 800wr ( 1'55+ equivalent for women )

These are solid reasons. Why this is the case would be up for dispute.

Sports physiologist wrote:

Why are you complaining? The whole track has been a joke since the introduction of EPO in mid-90's, but hey, we just have all those great performances! Furthermore, with the introduction of SARMs, GW501516, Aicar etc., a new great era is coming! I observe it very clearly during the last 1-2 years.

Because arguing with Ventolin is a bigger joke than a sport enhanced by drugs that only hurt the person taking them.

ventolin^3 wrote:

jjjjjjj wrote:what training do the top women 1500m do? put up or drop this topic where you are uncharacteristically ignorant.

apologies

this must be some kind of record

Gatlin is not doped up he's had his suspension, and rogers no?

rogers got in trouble just last year i think haha he may not be on them now cuz he is running 10 flats instead of last yr when he was running 9.8's and then got caught haha

jjjjjjj wrote:Oh, I'm an idiot because I catch you on the fact that you condemn their training as soft when you know nothing about how they train. An idiot pulls comments out of his arse without any evidence

idiot

the evidence of their training/talent is in their clockings

at 1500, kazankina went 3'52

the chinese wr is "only" 3'50

that's a 2s improvement, whereas the men's wr in that time went down from 3'31 to 3'28 & now down to 3'26

the chinese made a small improvement in the 1500wr, whereas the men's one has been muredered since since '82

i don't rate the chinese at 1500 as anything superhuman - i reckon dibaba/defar coud run 3'53/3'54 off their 5k/10k training & if they had shifted to 1500 solely at their peak, they woud also be going 3'50/3'51

jjjjjjj wrote:The fact that the top 1500m women runners are far, far from the 800m record is suggestive of why their times are so far from the 1500m record, of course. Both records are so doped up or gender confused, it is unbelievable. See the stories about the Chinese women that I linked somewhere in the past couple days: why Ma's distance runners were dropped from the Sydney Olympic team: EPO and other drugs.

further analysis

canova stated he had it from a chinese wc of '97 that wang coud not go faster than 55.5 ( it's in an ole "jelian" thread )

this is exactly the number i got from her best line of fit

55.5/1'57.3 ->

3'50.65

8'04.93

13'57.23

29'13.20

now, knock off 10% off all those distance times ->

3'29.68

7'20.84

12'41.11

26'33.81

these times are almost exactly the same komen ran '96/'97 ( albeit he didn't run a 10k, but i don't think anyone doubts sub-26'40 for him )

it indicates, that wang was virtually identical to komen in ability if you use 10% difference

it's one small piece of "evidence" supporting the 10% differential, which you can apply to any women's 1500 time you care to mention...

joho wrote:

Henry Sherman wrote:

Like who?

From Pre Classic

http://www.flotrack.org/article/12703-RESULTS-2012-Prefontaine-Classic-Eugene-Diamond-League

5 Thomas Pkemei Longosiwa KEN 13:03.88

6 John Kipkoech KEN 13:06.71

7 Yenew Alamirew ETH 13:06.84

Today's meet

4 ALAMIREW Yenew ETH 12:48.77 PB

5 LONGOSIWA Thomas Pkemei KEN 12:49.04 PB

6 KIPKOECH John KEN 12:49.50 PB

Do not forget to consider the travel to America for those guys. Rupp was home. He is welcome in Addis Abeba or Nairobi.

Also note that John Kipkoech paced Hengelo 5000 on may 27, then he has to rest and travel to america for that 5000m. Longosiwa had to focus on the Olympics Trials and save energy as well as Yenew who had to prepare for Paris Trials.

where are we getting this 10% rule from?

you think 3:56 is equivalent to a 3:34?? a 3:56.0, performance wise, comes out to #21 all-time for women. a 3:34.0 comes out to #1282 all time. hardly seems equivalent to me.

am i missing something here?

from 10.00 = 11.00, 20.00 = 22.00 for sprints, which most accept

it shoud not be much different for longer races

ummmmmm wrote:

they've served their bans. get off their nuts!

it's an olympic year and they've upped their training, of course you'll see fast times a month out from the Olympics!

besides a 3'56 is about equal to 3'29 for men (ask ventolin), which kiprop and kiplagat ran in May ??

you're just jealous slow(er) runners.

To cheat is to embrace defeat so slower but not jealous

As for running 3:56 why would they dope if they could run that clean. They are still doping same as Gatlin running .03 slower than his pr this year when he should be past it.

Kiptop and Kiplaget were born at altitude the girls were not hence the doping

Gatlin could be clean at this point, he was banned from competing, not banned from training, his fitness level would not drop that considerably, he could have very well toned his training down during the ban to maintain his speed/fitness and has only recently vamped it back up to the level he was training at with aid from PEDS.

PEDS get you to the top, once you're there it would only seem reasonable that you could remain and linger there for a decent period of time. Which is why I'm surprised you don't see more PEDS in highschool running.

ventolin^3 wrote:

from 10.00 = 11.00, 20.00 = 22.00 for sprints, which most accept

it shoud not be much different for longer races

moron

thats clearly not true. women are much better at distances than sprints when compared to men

idiot

idiot

where is your evidence ???

ethiopian 2nd string in dibaba's younger sister can go 3'56

what do you think big dibaba coud go for 1500 ???

ventolin all your running heroes are dopers. How does that make you feel?

jjjjjjj wrote:

ventolin^3 wrote:

apologies

meant to say speed is king - meaning some proper 800 speed for 1500

coe went 1'41, cram 1'42.8, baala/asbel 1'43.1, noah 1'44.6 split in 1k

i can't find 1 current women 1500 runner who has shown/potentially shown, 800 speed within ~ 2s of the current 1'53.2wr

recent women 1500 runners don't have 800 speed of male 1500 runners ( asbel/baala are recent )

they don't seem to offer much better than 1'59, nearly 7s outside wr, compared to 2s for male

that indicates to me that women's 1500 times CAN'T be same calibre as men - they don't have the 800 speed - even silas/gus have gone 1'44 -> 3s+ of 800wr ( 1'55+ equivalent for women )

These are solid reasons. Why this is the case would be up for dispute.

But lately, the top male 1500m runners (except Kaki) are not particularly good 800m runners.