Summer Mileage for HS Varsity Runners?

Seems like you coach's 30/40/50/60 plan is a good general expectation, with the thought that many guys will be able to get more like 50/60/70 their last three years.

60 a week is pretty reasonable for a lot of juniors/seniors and some sophomores, but only if they build up to it over enough time. Impossible to say anything about that coach's plan without knowing what his runners have done in the past.

It always depends on the kids. It seems like your son's coach is more of the opinion of "Let's develop them to improve each year and see what they can do as juniors and seniors!" while the other coach is more along the lines of "Let's have them run good mileage now, so our varsity can be as good as it can be this year!"

Neither is necessarily wrong, especially if the other coach has a varsity made up of mostly upperclassmen. 60 mpw isn't a huge amount, and 30 is rather low. I'd probably have them do something in between :) ... "best" is going to be relative to the circumstances.

30/40/50/60 was exactly what my son did and it absolutely worked for him. Zero high school injuries. Midpack guy freshman and sophomore years, state titles and national meets junior and senior years. It took his college coach only a few weeks to totally destroy all that - college coach was more like your 'everyone does 60' coach - everyone on the team was pushed as hard as he could push them, and many were pushed over the edge. Take your choice.

I would stick with the guy that wants to go slow and wants to actually help develop the guys, rather than trying to use them to win a team title.

Depends on how serious they are and just how good they want to be. 50-60mpw is really not very much for seniors. If they truly serious, then I would suggest more in the 80-90mpw range.

Actually, the increased mileage approach is best. But having said that, it probably is not a strict freshmen, sophomore, junior and senior program. These kids will be generally from 13 to 18 and there is a vast difference in the way they mature. A good coach will base the mileage on both physical and emotional maturity. Given that, I geneally believe that 45 is the minimum mph and 85 is the maximum. Anything over 85 and there is too much emphasis on running and no time for anything else. Although at 85 there is little time and this type of milage should be reserved for the talented and committed type of individual. Now again, there is a difference between boys and girls and I think the girls should be kept more in the range of 35 to 60. Interesting thing here is that quite often, unlike the boys, girls can be more ready to run the higher miles and faster times early. And sometimes tend to fade as they get older.

All the cool kids are doing 80mpw at the very least...anything less and you're a pu**y. Burnout is a myth.

Burnout is NOT a myth.

Cool kids are just as likely to burnout on 40 mpw as 80 mpw because on 40 mpw they can't compete with the ones that do 80 and losing is no fun.

50-60 mpw for upper classmen generally seems pretty high to me. I was a standout hs miler and was also a top 25 state XC runner. Granted, I did not get at all serious about training until my Jr./Sr. years (and even then my mpw were minimal compared to the real studs), but I don't ever remember getting over 40 mpw, even during summer. Of course, everyone is different and I freely admit I was not as committed as many others, but I think 30-40 mpw with some quality runs being put in weekly will get the job done. I certainly don't see the harm in running a bit more either. Don't forget to enjoy the summer as well though.

7th/8th grade : 20-30

Fr : 25-40

So : 30-50

Jr : 35-60

Sr : 40-70

All depends on talent level / motivation / body type

has been who never was wrote:

but I think 30-40 mpw with some quality runs being put in weekly will get the job done. I certainly don't see the harm in running a bit more either. Don't forget to enjoy the summer as well though.

This is the kind of mentality that lead to the demise of US distance running during the 90's.

Depends on how fast they are running. I've had some kids increase their mileage, and end up running slower times when they came back from Summer Vacation. Make sure they are doing some uptempo stuff at least once every couple weeks. They are only racing 3.1 miles, not half marathons.

Some of these responses are way out of line based on the average high school varsity runner.

The 30/40/50/60 plan is admirable. I personally would modify it to 25/30/35/40 for average varsity athletes, with top-tier, physically mature guys running the 30/40/50/60.

When I was in high school, and there are plenty like me, my body was just not mature enough to handle more than 35 miles a week (I looked like a 14- year old until I was 20). I was desperate to crank my mileage, but my muscles just wouldn't have it. Every time I approached 35 mpw, overtraining symptoms kicked in. I am so grateful I had a coach who preached moderate mileage... at many high mileage programs, I would have been roadkill.

Flexibility is key. If a kid has the drive and the physical ability to pull of 60 mpw, I'm all for it.

I believe cross country should be a sport available to athletes of all durability levels... and most kids, in my opinion, cannot handle high mileage--and for someone younger than 18, 60 mpw is high mileage. I won't disagree with the success of high mileage programs but I believe that's more a factor of finding 5 or 6 kids who can handle it rather than doing what's best for most.

See my reply to another thread relating to intervals for HS runners below:

HS runners like all runners need a balanced program to develope all systems to run their best. So yes, they should run intervals but it depends on what you call intervals.

First of all you need to develope a base. The amount of base will generally be dictated by the high school runners physical and mental maturity, but should range between 45 to 80 mpw. A long run is necessary, but contrary to the common thought that it should be 25% of the mileage, for HS runners running 5k this should be limited to 12-13 miles at any one time. Additionally tempo runs are needed and they should be approximately 10% of the weekly distance at approximately a 10k pace (5k + 20 to 30 secs). Intervals of 800 to 1200 meters should comprise approximately 8% of the training and should be at 3000 to 5000 meter pace. Then there should be some basic speed work and mile pace but limited to 5% of total mileage, generally run as 200, 300 or 400 meters. The rest of the running should be as an easy pace which would be 1:30 to 2 minutes slower than 5k pace.

Although these distances sound like track work, that does not have to be the case. Many of this runs can and should be done on a cross country course if possible.

Thats my 2 cents for what it is worth.

This is the kind of mentality that lead to the demise of US distance running during the 90's.

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Ouch. You took my comment out of context a bit, but you win. I graduated in 90 (you must have sensed it) as well and agree. It wasn't just the 90s either; it's with us still. We are soft over here no doubt and could stand to do more at every level, including high school.

I think you may be missing the call of the question though, which as I understood it, addressed a "varsity" runner and not necessarily an athlete who was 100% committed to putting everything he had into running. If we were talking about the latter, I would agree with you. But like it or not, varsity XC teams are littered with people of all shapes, sizes and abilities. Having everyone on the varsity team run 50-60 mpw simply because of their grade level would be ill-advised for some.

Now lighten up a little bit and stop being so hard on us old guys :)

Interestingly enough, I am one of the old guys (62) but if you read my postings you will note that I do differentiate between runners, but did leave out one important factor. . .desire. You can't instill desire to succeed simply by having them run miles, so add that dimension to physical and emotional maturity when deciding how many miles a high school runner should run.

You also hit upon an interesting point; indirectly. Not all are there for the sake of running and competition. Some simply join the team for a social outlet. Recently I talked to a coach who indicated he had a hard enough time getting them to practice (summer optional), much less run high mileage. Maybe it was his demographic of kids, the lack of tradition at the school or his inability to motivate, but not all runners are alike and each must be handled as an individual.

My general comments regarding training relate to those that want to train and compete. For those others, just running is a positive.

First of all top 20 in the state is not exactly a stellar resume. Mileage is really a function of how much quality you are getting in as well. I would say that your coaches plan seems a bit light especially if you are doing junk miles all summer. if your pace is decent and you are throwing in some workouts like tempos and farklets then it might be closer to correct. I would say its better to bump up your mileage and intensity and pay attention to how you feel. If you feel you are too tired all the time or you have little things (pre injures) starting to nag you then back off a bit till you feel back in the groove. As to whether or not it is realistic maybe not because most HS runners are pretty lazy in the summer. Many will not run a step until organized practice, however those that do will have a leg up and will be able to handle good work outs early in the season which will allow them to be at their best for state.

Scott Dye wrote:

has been who never was wrote:

but I think 30-40 mpw with some quality runs being put in weekly will get the job done. I certainly don't see the harm in running a bit more either. Don't forget to enjoy the summer as well though.

This is the kind of mentality that lead to the demise of US distance running during the 90's.

I disagree. I ran during the years of the early 70s. I had some great teammates who put in alot more mileage but did not really improve. By the time college came around they were just plain worn out. Conversley i did very low mileage high quality work. Lots of fartlek during a 4 mile morning run. Then afternoon track work.I did other things besides run, i enjoyed my summer. Most of my weeks were 50 miles or less.Big mileage really worked best for the guys who were not very athletic, you know the 6 minute mile guys. You could get them down to 4:45 but none of the big mileage guys i knew could ever run fast(sub 4 20) If you want alot of OK runners just throw mileage at them.

If you want fast runners you need to forget mileage and work on quality.

First, that "9 miler" is likely not 9 miles. It's probably 8. thank you Garmin.

Secondly, What you tell HS kids to do, and what they really do is more often than not. For example, we have run this route quite often and I was specific on which way to go. I even ran with them and they still tried to take the cutoff... Until I called them on it.

Actual mileage < Assigned mileage by about 10%.

As for the above step system for goal mileage I think that is perfect for the beginning runner with no running experience. But if a club runner comes in with three years of base then they should be plugged in with year 3 runners.

Every runner should be handled differently. Depending on their strengths, a runner might run 90 mpw or 50 mpw senior year. Same times but different physiology. Freshman can run between 20 and 50 mpw with the same results. If you cluster coach, you will not get as impressive results as if you have some flexibility. This does not mean that no one runs together though. Some kids do 2 hour long runs, some one hour. Some run seven days a week, some 5 days. They can run the same runs and same workouts together most of the time.

Coaching by formulas and strict percentages off of weekly totals is a mistake. Those coaches may do ok and get some conference titles but the ones going to NXN and watching their former athletes at NCAAs are the ones who know how to coach, not regurgitate.