As you probably are aware, there has been a very popular thread on LetsRun.com the last few days centered on whether or not a UTPan-American athlete was or is on performance enhancing drugs. We were contacted by the coaches at UT-Pan America and asked to take down the thread (See their request below). After carefully considering the issue, we decided not to take down the thread (although it appears we may have accidentally deleted the thread in an earlier attempt to make an official statement).
We issued the following statement to the UT Pan American coaches about the rationale behind our decision not to remover the thread and now want offer it to the LetsRun.com visitors.
Additionally, we'd encourage anyone with information regarding this situation to contact us privately via email at [email protected].
Our official statement:
Mr. Vaugh and Molnar,
Thank you for contacting us.
It is our general policy to not edit material on the message boards unless it has profane language. We encourage the free flow of debate.
Unfortunately, drugs are a part of track and field. There have been posts on the boards saying Paula Radcliffe must be on drugs because she is so fast. Posts have even been made about myself, Weldon Johnson (#4 in the 10k in
2001 in the US), saying that I must be on drugs because of my rapid improvement. But we realize that this comes with the territory of being at the top of the sport and we do not remove these posts.
The case in question here involves a collegiate runner and the use of drugs. We have not had to deal with such an issue before. But within the realm of the running world, Mr. Keating by his high placings in races is a prominent
public figure. By placing himself before the public he opens himself up to their scrutiny. All runners at the top of the sport are under the suspicion of drug use. Therefore, we have decided not to remove the posts at this
time.
In terms of libel and/or slander we are on firm legal ground. Since, Mr. Keating is a public figure he would have to prove that what was posted on our message boards we knew to be false. This certainly is not the case. We even in good faith contacted his former coach at UT-Austin on the matter, and he would not comment specifically on the matter only saying generically that Mr. Keating "was not a good fit for their program."
If, Mr. Keating or UT Pan American wants to issue an official statement on this matter generically or more specifically the medical problem in Furman last year to set the record straight we will gladly publish it.
I look forward to hearing from you. I will be on the road the next couple days, but if you want to convince me otherwise to remove the post you can try calling me at 928-***-****.
In the meantime, we will try and track down the person who posted the original thread and see if they would like to reveal themselves and will study requiring registration to post on our forums.
-Weldon Johnson
LetsRun.com
***Original letter from The UT Coaches***
Dear Sir:
It has come to our attention at the University of Texas - Pan American that your website Letsrun.com has a thread on its chat page and on its home page concerning Westly Keating and his alleged use of EPO. We strongly urge you to consider the ramifications of allowing such unsubstaniated rumors to run rampant on your web page. In the past, courts have upheld libel and slander suits against web pages for such activities. One such chatroom has decided to discontinue its thread on this issue because of the ludicrious and unsubstainal claims being made. We would hope that you would follow suit. We are strong believers in the freedom of speech; however, speech must be tempered in the truth. Should you have any concerns you can e-mail me or phone me at (865) ***-****. Thank you for your time and consideration in this matter.
Sincerely,
Ricky Vaugh - Head Track Coach
Douglas J. Molnar
Track & Cross-Country Coach
University of Texas - Pan American
LetsRun.com's Official Statement Regarding Request To Remove Thread Alleging Collegiate EPO Use
Report Thread
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Well, there you have it. The thread was "accidentally" deleted. Maybe the kid is innocent, maybe not. Would anyone really be shocked if ONE of the top 50 men or women were using illegal performance enhancing drugs??? Of course not, that would be a very likely reality. But who knows if it is this dude or not? Only Westly himself really knows for sure (though there could be other witnesses). But nothing truly substantial has been brought forward as proof. If his coaches REALLY care as much as they claim, they could likely get the school to pay for an Objective governing body (who does the surprise testing for US athletes? IAAF?) or some objective lab to do a reliable EPO test. C?mon! That?s better than an e-mail to Let?sRun.com. He should not HAVE to do that, but as Paula proved, submitting yourself to a voluntary test is ONE way to at least get some nay-sayers to become believers (not all nay-sayers, there will always be idiots like Dunes Runner).
In short, UTPan-AM coaches??PAY FOR AN EPO TEST, AND QUIET THE CROWD. Or live with the rumors. -
I have no idea how much a test for a performance enhancing drug costs. That being said perhaps LetRun.com could start raising funds through it's website to pay for such tests. The posters who are most outraged and offended by the alleged cheaters can donate some money and LetsRun could offer the alleged a chance to clear his/ her name. Obviously this is not perfect but maybe it would be a step in the right direction.
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WEll, I agree with some sort of testing available(potentially at reduced costs) for those who want to voluntarily be tested. Yeah, the brojo's Dad is loaded I believe, maybe they could get him to start an objective test lab that would do it. But I doubt that will happen.
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Wrong, skinnyman. It was an unsubstantiated rumor posted by an anonymous poster alleging that a felony has been committed by one of your brothers-in-sweat. Where are the facts? Why Dyestat and Letsrun and not the police? Wake up. Even after sorting through the rambling prose, none of the claims made sense. The coaches at UTPan-AM don't have anything to prove.
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OK, I agree Malmo that the coaches have nothing to prove. BUT....since unfortunately drug rumors often ARE true (NOT saying all of them, just a decent amount), the simple fact that this rumor is out, is going to make some people question this guy?s innocence. SO?..why not PROVE himself innocent (ok, sure even a clean drug test would not prove him innocent beyond ANY doubt, but it would help)?? Of course they do not HAVE to do this, just has Paula Radcliffe does not. But she does it. If I was in this guy?s shoes, and I could get my coaches or school or someone to pay for the test, I WOULD volunteer for it. If I was offered a free objective test and turned it down after being accused of being a cheater, I would be suspect (and, no, no one HAS offered Westly such a test. I am just saying ?IF? it were offered and turned down.). There would be no reason NOT to get tested, except $ and inconvenience. If $ was not a factor, I think the rumors would be more of an inconvenience than getting a test.
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Okay skinny guy, i'm not saying you're a moron, but let's assume that someone has a test which will establish whether you are a moron or not. Now let's assume that someone offers to pay for you to take that test, okay I know no-one has offered to pay for you to take the moron test, but, anyway, let's now assume that you refuse to take the test that we are assuming someone has paid for you to take - on the assumption that you are a moron.
Well, it's clear isn't it?
You are a MORON! -
lorenzo wrote:
Okay skinny guy, i'm not saying you're a moron, but let's assume that someone has a test which will establish whether you are a moron or not. Now let's assume that someone offers to pay for you to take that test, okay I know no-one has offered to pay for you to take the moron test, but, anyway, let's now assume that you refuse to take the test that we are assuming someone has paid for you to take - on the assumption that you are a moron.
Well, it's clear isn't it?
You are a MORON!
I couldn't have said that better myself lorenzo - probably because I'm an idiot. But nobody's proved that yet.
I'm with malmo here, if I were this guy why would I respond to any of this? If he failed some test he was require to take that's a different matter altogether. -
I see where you are coming from ... but ... just because you read something on the internet doesn't mean that there's merit it in. The aphorism "where there's smoke there's fire" should be taken with a grain of salt. The first test would be to assess the credibility of the original poster. In this case there was none. Zip. Zero. Nada. Secondly, on cross examination, none of the purported "facts" makes any sense. C'mon, you may have heard of a case or two where someone (usually an addicted pharmacist) ripped off a pharmacy for drugs, but in reality these are rare occasions. Besides, they always get caught. Pharmacies have tight inventory controls. You are not going to first hear about a criminal conspiracy like this on, of all places, Dyestat. Do you agree?
To answer your other question, a third place finisher in a regional level college cross country meet has other things more important to worry about than answering suspicions by anonymous posters on ethereal internet message boards: NCAAs, exams, Thanksgiving, to name a few.
Makes any sense to you? -
Dumb and Dumber wrote:
[quote]lorenzo wrote:
I couldn't have said that better myself lorenzo - probably because I'm an idiot. But nobody's proved that yet.
Well, duh! It's a moron test, not an idiot test. -
"it appears we may have accidentally deleted the thread". What a pile of bullshit. Sounds like someone is in that small minority that never shits while out on a run, and saved it for the internet.
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Damn now you went and proved it...
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International runners are ALREADY subject to drug tests!
skinny wrote:
as Paula proved, submitting yourself to a voluntary test is ONE way to at least get some nay-sayers to become believers (not all nay-sayers, there will always be genius's like Dunes Runner).
Olga Yegorova has taken every one of them and has passed them all!
The UK "says" Radcliffe passed some tests, but has not provided the results!
Why not???? Probably because her results were higher than Yegorova's and Radcliffe didn't want to look like the hypocrite that she is.
Radcliffe "volunteering" to have her blood frozen for future "tests" is ludicrous. Freezing blood makes it worthless for any kind of a reasonable test! Radcliffe must know this, since she has accused other runners of being on drugs. Therefore she MUST know the details of how drugs work and the tests.
So why did she volunteer to have her blood frozen. Is she trying to hide the facts from the public?
The obvious answer is YES she is!
She has already used drugs in the press to get rid of her competition. And she has admitted using a tent. Who knows what other unscrupulous lengths she might use to get rid of her legitimate competition.
I am still waiting for Radcliffe to apologize and attempt to make some reparation to Olga Yegorova.
In the meantime Radcliff needs to take her own advice. Are you reading this Paula? CHEATS OUT!!! This means YOU!
Get out of the sport and leave it for the legitimate runners who aren't such a big CHEAT like you are. -
If you had the opportunity to say what you just did to her face, would you? What about everyone who had the claims about Keating? I would be very interested to see how many people would go up to him at the national meet and talk to him with the same outburst and claims on this board. My guess would be zero, because you are all cowards in that aspect.
However, those same people would start a thread 5 pages long about him. Or are you more comfortable, like most people on this board, sitting in the luxury of your own home behind a computer with no name? You all ask for credibility, however some of you fail to look upon the posters, just like Malmo has stated, about how credible the poster is --- which is zero. -
Josh wrote:
If you had the opportunity to say what you just did to her face, would you?
Josh, excellent idea. It was stated that Paula might be training in Flagstaff this winter. Maybe Dunes Runner could set something up and meet with Paula and say what he has to say. Dunes, are you up for it? -
Of course.
Josh wrote:
If you had the opportunity to say what you just did to her face, would you?
Interesting you stand up for Keating, and call the people who accuse him to be cowards.
What about everyone who had the claims about Keating? I would be very interested to see how many people would go up to him at the national meet and talk to him with the same outburst and claims on this board.
Yet you stand up for the coward Radcliffe who accused Olga Yegorova.
Olga Yegorova, who has been tested many times and has passed every test!!!!
A bit of hypocrisy there, Josh? -
MY APOLOGIES TO ALL!
But NOT for suggesting that this Keating guy think seriously about getting voluntarily tested. There was NOTHING moronic about it. This is a fact despite the attempt by Lorenzo to show that it was a MORON-ic suggestion. Lorenzo, your post did not make sense, was not funny or clever, nor did it make my proposal look stupid. If people were saying I was something I was not(like say, a moron), and they offered me a free RELIABLE test to measure this claim, like say an IQ test. I would gladly take it and prove them wrong. And, in fact, an IQ test would prove this. This is because the terms Moron(along with Imbicile and Idiot) were coined by the psychologist Lewis Terman. His scale looks like this:
IQ 0-25: Idiot (can't feed self)
IQ 26-50: Imbicile (can't dress self)
IQ 51-80: Moron (can just manage unskilled work)
IQ 81+: Normal to Superior
I am pretty sure I can crack 80. Care to take a bet?? (And ?Dumb & Dumber,? so your IQ is below 25? A shame. Who is feeding you tonight?)
Anyway, I proved my point. If someone ?libels? me, and I am given an opportunity to prove them wrong, and ?clear? my name, I will do so gladly. And if Westly as really this good, then he will need to get used to getting tested and scrutinized. It is Life in the Fast Lane (pun intended) of running, one he has chosen. Paula has chosen to voluntarily submit to extra tests. Why not him? Again, he should not HAVE to. I am simply saying, I would and I think it would be in his best interest to do that(if given a free one AND, of course, IF he is clean).
Oh yeah, WHY was I apologizing. FOR BRINING UP DUNES RUNNER?S NAME. I KNEW he respond with his tired, repetitive nonsense. SORRY ABOUT THAT EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -
I think that the matter of who does the libeling is more relevant. It is ludicrous to defend yourself against anyone who wants to take a shot without offering evidence.
If someone of stature and who has a spotless reputation makes an accusation with some proof, it may be necessary to defend yourself by taking a test. But, give me a break, there are so many accusations without crediblity that it is an injustice that they would have to be disproved. -
Weldon, I am glad that you did not kowtow to the pressure from these coaches and remove the thread.
I am happy that their is an open forum such as letsrun where we can have open debate.
Keep this good thing going strong!
Yours sincerely,
Crazy Jason -
dunes runner, please spare us the retread paula olga blah blah blah rhetoric.
personally, im rooting for keating to kick ass on monday, top-ten style. if he does this and is on the juice, well, it will be just what the sport needs, in the end. and if he does this and is in fact CLEAN (we do have to hold this as a possibility), well, then he's my goddam hero!
i actually copied the thread assuming it would get taken down, in some way or another, except im missing the last 1/3 of or so of the posts. good old letsrungate
