Green Bay Marathon halted because of heat

That's great and all that its hotter in other parts of the world. But this is different - few people are acclimated to running in 70 degree weather at 7am in May in Wisconsin. I survived the heat better than most, but only ran the half.

Its too bad they had to shut it down - but when you're running out of medical folks, what else can you really do? Maybe they could have been a little more prepared, but given what was actually happening, I don't think they had a choice.

My main suggestion is to have a contingency where you could decide the day before the race to move it up 60-90 minutes if needed. I would rather run in the dark than deal with that heat.

A hot marathon in WI in mid-May? More proof of global warming, surely.

It is unfortunate they shut down most of the racing at GB. I was fortunate to have been injured leading up to it, so I paced my wife instead. She didn't finish after overheating at mile 12.5 (yes, she's pissed she couldn't finish). She pushed herself too hard, but she was fit.

That said, the med tent was busy, but not overwhelmed (at least through 9:15am). Like my wife, I think a lot of people tried to push themselves too much considering the heat.

My wife was pushing it for a top 5 finish, and through 10 miles, she was there. In a way, I feel guilty for her dropout because I was there to help her do her best (at her request). If I had not been with her, she probably would have slowed earlier and finished.

It is interesting that they shut down the racing, except for the top 5 in each of the men's and women's marathons - 5th place for women was 3:24.

Next thing you know they'll start cancelling marathons because they are too long.

I was there in the marathon. Well ahead of pace for BQ through 20 when I was told the finish was shut down. Ran it in to about 26.1 where there was a big fence in front of the finishing chute. Kinda weird they counted top 5 women, even though there were tons of people before that 5th place female that didn't get counted. If they wanted to do that, how about count all the finishers up til that female.

It was hot, but not unbearably so and the course did a good job of offering frequent water stations. Anyone running a marathon in late May in the US should be prepared it may be in the mid-80's and they will have to run slower than planned.

Old Man Runner wrote:

It seems to me like the RD is in a no-win situation here.

If he lets people continue running, then he opens himself and the race up to potential lawsuits...all it takes is one undertrained person to get sick (heat stroke) and there is a lawsuit against everyone involved in the race. Think its funny? Look at the "Mud Run" participant thread from last week!

If he cancels the race like he did, people are pissed because they were running fine, or the heat didn't bother them, or they feel cheated because they put in all this training, they were on BQ pace, etc.

Should he have had more medical on the course? I don't know. I wasn't there. I don't know how much he had. At the same time, you can't get 1 medical personnel for every 1 runner.

I agree.

I was there yesterday and the med tents were out of ice before the 2 hour point. It looked like a war zone before any full runners had finished!

Green Bay isn't a huge place, and they just didn't have the medical staff needed to keep up with demand. Combine this with the fact that the course doesn't have much shade and it felt much hotter than the weather reports showed (lots of exposed concrete stretches) and that the half attracts a lot of inexperienced runners and you had a disaster waiting to happen. Its unfortunate because its a rough position to be in, but if your med staff is over extended...what can you do? Letting things go on can result in gross liability issues, and no matter what you sign...you can't defeat that.

The bigger problem is the way full runners were directed off course. Some were able to go on and finish, others were forced off course by cop cars. And those who did finish didn't get credit for the times, even though the mat stayed on. There was no warning, just cop cars and buses saying "you're done." I can't imagine it's easy to plan a "what if" scenario for this kind of thing unless you've been there (see also the Chicago 2007 debacle), but it wasn't handled that smoothly.

Old Man Runner wrote:

justme wrote:

Race Director needs to take some of the responsibility. A race this size takes in big, big money. One needs to be willing to pay for medical services.

It seems to me like the RD is in a no-win situation here...

Often times a decision such as this lies primarily in the hands of the local officials. The RD may or may not have a say in the decision, and if he or she does have a say it may not be the biggest voice at the table. The marathon I work for, one of the big conversations we've had over the past 2-3 years pertains to who is the "buck stops here" person if developing weather or other factors dictates a race cancellation.

Sean Ryan, the Green Bay RD, has an excellent reputation for doing the right things when it comes to his races. I suspect a little patience and we'll get a resolution that addresses what happened.

I completely agree. Sean Ryan will implement what, if anything, can rectify this for the future. He and his staff always try to make the race great, and I thought the addition of ice in a cup at several water stations was a great idea.

Here's a link to more info from the local paper.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/section/2012marathon

The previous post is correct...Sean Ryan does have a great reputation, and I believe deservedly so. To highlight the issue, Ryan also is the RD for the Door County 1/2 Ironman. Temps got into the high 90s for the event last summer and it wasn't cancelled.

The issue is marathons and 1/2s catering to the back-of-the-pack or under-prepared runners. I'm generally a "big tent" kind of guy when it comes to running. The more, the merrier...better to run slow than not at all. But at the same time, there has to be some personal responsibility. If the conditions are too much for you, then drop out...live to run another day. Don't count on the RD to stop the race for everyone for your benefit.

I was in Green Bay to watch my wife run the marathon. She had a good training cycle and some good preparation races this Spring. But afterward, she said she knew at the start line that she wasn't going to hit her goal pace. So she ran what felt like a sustainable pace...until they told her at 18 the race was over. She mostly walked a couple miles trying to decide what to do, and then just jogged it in to the finish. Why penalize the runners that run a smart race?

We saw my wife at Mile 4 and then had to wait probably 20 min until there was a big enough gap to cross the course (had the kids in a bike trailer). It was an eye-opening experience. We saw some runners completely drenched, walking, looking exhausted. This was 4 miles in, temps in the mid 70s with humidity in the mid 60% range. Sweet Jesus, people! Know your limitations!

jsdietsche wrote:

Here's a link to more info from the local paper.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/section/2012marathon

The previous post is correct...Sean Ryan does have a great reputation, and I believe deservedly so.

Sean does not have a great reputation. He actually has a reputation for being a pomp-ass prick that only cares about himself. I'm sure he has no intention of making things right with all the runners that were slighted this weekend. After all, a man has to get current on his mortgage and buy a new vehicle right?

Are race directors really that wealthy? I don't think you guys realize how much it costs to put on a major race. There isn't that much profit, especially not for the hours of prep necessary.

Being an RD is still a pretty selfish endeavor. You'd at least agree to that, right?

OrvilleAtkins wrote:

marathon in 1961 and it was 92 degrees

Thank you Orville for giving some historical perspective

to that insane Algore butt kisser.

I would like to invite all those that complained about yesterday's Green Bay Marathon or the weather in Boston last month to visit and run the Honolulu Marathon in December.

Always the 2nd Sunday in December.

This year December 9th.

Over the past thirty years that I have kept track of the race we always start at 70+ degrees Fahrenheit.

There have been a few rare days when it might have been 69 degrees at the 5:00am start, but by 8:00am or 9:00am it is 75 to 80 degrees, some years closer to 85. In 1995 we broke 90 degrees and yes, Honolulu is humid.

Things can be worse. Try running Thailand, Vietnam or the Phillipines.

Yes, the heat and humidity slows you down. The Kenyan men who win in 2:11-2:12 can normally do 2:07 in places like Chicago. The women winners in the 2:28 to 2:30 range are more like 2:23 to 2:25 marathoners when running Berlin or London.

If you really want to test yourself in the heat come to Kona in June

or Maui in September.

most race directors have contracts and receive at least 25-35% of the total amount received in entry fees.

This website says there are 38 marathons in the US where the average temperature (not high temp) is over 70. Of course, we have 7 of the 38 out here. http://findmymarathon.com/location.php(you can do a search on average race day temperature)

Forget the Honolulu Marathon in December - Saturday we had the Woodlands TRIATHLON in Houston - like 5 times as hard then for you pansies in just a marathon and in Cold-climate Green Bay!

I ran the Honolulu Marathon in 1976 and 1977. I remember well that the sweat began to drip off of me the minute I got off of the plane in 1977.

Those who said that this year's Green Bay Marathon was too early in the year for them to be heat trained are right. But an added problem in this day and age is that too many first timers have not trained nearly enough to complete a marathon in any weather.

17 of the 47 starters in 1961 finished. I learned, for the first time, some of what racing a marathon was all about. From then on, starting in early spring, I began to train at least once a week at noon and in at least two sweat suites. Because of this, I was able to cope with the heat better than most racers.

After I moved to California, I always ran better when the weather was over 60. I had to use lineament and cocoa butter on my legs just to keep loose when it was under 50 degrees.

It wouldn't be a problem if the marathon hadn't been overwhelmed by penguins and Gallowalkers. 20 years ago a race like this would never have thought about stopping but because you have a majority of unfit runners trying to jog/walk their way through 26.1 race directors are caught in a real bind.

enjoy the new car wrote:

most race directors have contracts and receive at least 25-35% of the total amount received in entry fees.

Evidence? Everything I've read suggests 10-20% of profits (not of total fees collected).