J.R. wrote:
Mega ahead wrote:Falsehood: Alamirew THREW HIS WHOLE BODY into Solinski
You are making things up, as I did not say what you have suggested.
Next time try reading the whole thread before getting so defensive.
J.R. wrote:
Mega ahead wrote:Falsehood: Alamirew THREW HIS WHOLE BODY into Solinski
You are making things up, as I did not say what you have suggested.
Next time try reading the whole thread before getting so defensive.
I'm not sure why people are saying Solinsky is whining/racist because of this comment. It doesn't sound like whining at all to me. It sounds like he's just theorizing about what strategies might be most effective against the best runners in the game. If he thinks that pushing the pace earlier on gives him the best chance of winning, how is that whining? Also, a guy who has raced against the best in the world on many occasions probably knows more about this than your average poster on letsrun.
naia champ wrote:
Good thing LR wasn't around in '72.
•"I'm going to work so that it's a pure guts race at the end, and if it is, I am the only one who can win it." -
Or maybe in '72 people would have pointed out he got 4th.
Please Chris Solinsky isn't in a position to speak on how to beat the Kenyans. It's not like he's ever been in a position to execute that strategy during a International Championship. As a poster point out earlier his best finish is 12th and he's only qualified for one international championship. Chris had one great year in which he ran 12:55-56 and 26:59 and think he can now defeat the Africans.
Kenenisa B. can finish a 10000m in Chris Solinsky's 5000m personal best as Kenenisa has finished a 10000m in 12:57 and another in sub 13:10, so how are you gonna push the pace Chris when the Africans will take you to a place you never been in the 10000m?
Solinsky must not remember Beijing in 2008 when Bekele ran the last 3000 of the 5000 in about 7:35 all by himself. If you try to front run against these guys early, you will make their job easier. You need to be able to stay with them and make a stong long kick from about 600 meters to beat them. No American can do that right now. Solinsky should focus on healing his body instead of flapping his jaw.
does ANYONE like to hurt 1k out?
Great points by PoorPoor and sub3. Solinsky your good and getting there but your not there yet, so what til you can compete with these guys in a championships before you give out advice on how to beat them. Have you beat any of them in a championship race yet, Sir?
5/4/2012 7:33PM - in reply to J.R.
Mega ahead wrote:
Falsehood: Alamirew THREW HIS WHOLE BODY into Solinski
J.R. wrote:
You are making things up, as I did not say what you have suggested.
Cliff Clavin wrote:
He's referring to Solinsky's own words. Posters reply to more than just you, surely you must know this.
In this case, he was replying to me.
5/4/2012 7:33PM - in reply to J.R.
Mega ahead wrote:
Falsehood: Alamirew THREW HIS WHOLE BODY into Solinski
J.R. wrote:
You are making things up, as I did not say what you have suggested.
10K Runner wrote:
Next time try reading the whole thread before getting so defensive.
I reflect your comment back to you.
J.R. wrote:
Mega ahead wrote:Falsehood: Alamirew THREW HIS WHOLE BODY into Solinski
You are making things up, as I did not say what you have suggested.
I'm replying to you only in that you seem to be on the bandwagon defending Solinskys jolt off the track. Like you, I confirm as fact that he was touched, but I call SOLINSKYS direct quote a falsehood. It is bizarre to me, as others have pointed out, that you think I am putting these words in your mouth when it is a clear, verbatim, quote from Solinksy. I didn't personally address you, so I'm unsure why you're taking it as a personal post.
Ahhh, but now it is making perfect sense! You're as big of a drama queen as Solinsky, making up big, bad, mean people picking on you!
The last two posters are TRICKS who really care to read about your insignificant bickering. You're no longer speaking on the thread instead your talking about nonesense.
Solinsky had no right to start talking about a way to beat the Kenyans when he has never even crack the top 10 in a major championships. So far he's just a good national runner who had one great season. Put your feet where you mouth is CHRIS and let your performances do your talking!!!
5/4/2012 7:33PM - in reply to J.R.
Mega ahead wrote:
I'm replying to you only in that you seem to be on the bandwagon defending Solinskys jolt off the track.
you think I am putting these words in your mouth when it is a clear, verbatim, quote from Solinksy.
You're replying to me because right at the top it says in reply to J.R.
See. That's me, J.R. Not Solinsky.
Now you're accusing me of defending Solinsky's jolt off the track.
Au contrare! I am not defending the jolt off the track.
What I said was that Solinsky should have been more aware of his space and defended his space and position.
You were the last person to post and I merely hit reply on yours. Someone else suck in a post before I got done.I accused you of nothing, I said that you . . .
Mega ahead wrote:
seem to be on the bandwagon defending Solinskys jolt off the track.
That, my friend, is not an accusation, but a suspicion that leaves room for error and makes no conclusion.
I suspect I'm getting trolled right now though.
GlobalView wrote:
I wonder if Solinsky knows about Filbert Bayi - he of the 51/52 first 1500/mile lap. What about John Ngugi's early gold-winning 5000m surge in Seoul? And is he aware of Kip Keino's "catch me if you can" tactic?
In light of Solinsky's statement, it seems not.
Well, his statement was that "Kenyans and Ethiopians do not like to hurt for more than 1K out from the finish." Perhaps he had a different view of Tanzanians like Bayi.
But I agree with the basic criticism of Solinsky's statement. Although there have been some bold non-African frontrunners like Clarke (1960s), Bedford (1970s), and Steve Jones (1980s), it seems that East Africans -- and Kenyans in particular -- have been especially prominent in a long historical trend away from predominantly sit-and-kick racing to a wide variety of racing tactics and strategies, including frontrunning, surging, and extended drives to the finish, all of which have been used to shift the odds away from those runners who happened to have the best finishing speed. Keino's great Olympic victory in '68 and Ngugi's great Olympic victory in '88 were the first two examples that came to my mind, but there have been so many instances, from 1500m to the marathon. In fact, for a long time, Kenyan runners were routinely disparaged for what was often perceived as recklessly fast pacing. It just seems like a very bizarre and ahistorical statement by Solinsky.
Mega ahead wrote:
I accused you of nothing, I said that you . . .
"seem to be on the bandwagon defending Solinskys jolt off the track."
That, my friend, is not an accusation, but a suspicion that leaves room for error and makes no conclusion.
Well then my friend, for clarification, what I said was:
J.R. wrote:
Yes, it does look like Alamirew shoved Solinsky as you said. Also Merga elbowed and cut him off drastically just a few strides before that.
So I was not condoning the jolting of Solinsky.
I think the main issue in all this is that you seem to be stating the obvious. No one is, or ever has, argued that contact wasn't made. The issue is the way Solinsky handled the situation; DNF'd and then talks about it as if he was body slammed. This is the point I was making originally, which since you did nothing but point out the obvious, was why the post was not personally directed toward you, but rather toward those (including Solinsky) are describing it.
I disagree with Solinsky on this one. I just found an article about how Bekele destroyed the 5k field in the 2008 Olympics. I posted this article in another thread but I figure its relevance is needed here as well.
http://www.letsrun.com/2008/5k0824.php
The man raced this way to counter Lagat's sit and kick method, used against Bekele in 2006, and what El Guerrouj did to Bekele in Athens.
How is someone who runs 26:40s gonna hurt the last 1000 if he slows down to CS's level?
I think Solinsky has great talent and if he can stay healthy I have do doubt he can improve significantly on his 10000m pb. The problem with Chris's statement is the Kenyans and Ethiopians have revolutionize the 5000m and 10000m starting with John Ngugi's 1988 5000m Olympic fartlek run. Since then the 5000m and 10000m have transformed to new heights with surges and tactics now being employed by others like the Eritreans to combat the Kenyans and Ethiopians.
Chris should actually let his actions speak for him and kept that statement to himself, especially since it's almost a certainity that he won't be on the track to show the world what he meant in 2012!
VIPAM wrote:
The problem with Chris's statement is the Kenyans and Ethiopians have revolutionize the 5000m and 10000m starting with John Ngugi's 1988 5000m Olympic fartlek run.
I agree with your sentiment, but I'd go back a lot further than Ngugi's wonderful victory in 1988. Henry Rono, for example, destroyed some excellent fields (and some very fast finishers, like Yifter) with ferocious mid-race surges in the late '70s and early '80s. I remember that Al Salazar, when he was among the fastest 10,000m runners in the world, gave great credit to the surging tactics of the Kenyans. Guys like Keino, Rono, and Ngugi were really gutsy runners who knew how to hurt from a long way out, and I haven't seen a lack of guts in the Kenyan runers of more modern times. Time and again, we've seen great Kenyan runners rip through early miles at searingly fast paces that guaranteed serious pain from a long way out. Solinsky's comment is baffling.