Charles Jock 3:53.44

Come on. If Matt Centrowitz dropped down and ran a 48.0 open quarter there would probably be a thread about that posted here too.

Jock ran 1:44.7 last year, made World's, and split :44. And he's quite new to the sport. But you think that we should criticize him or ignore him, maybe. No potential, right?

jjjjjjj wrote:

Jock's a stud and contra the sub 4 miler Cush, who should know better, if you improve significantly at 1500m, while retaining your 400m speed, you will most likely drop your 800m pr significantly. It's not about the predictor in the 1500m; it's about the fact that he now has more endurance and if he has retained the speed, we'll see that 1:43 this year. My only question is when will we see 1:42 from him?

i'm not sure what you're countering. i think jock will run 1:43--i don't believe this because of his abundant talent or his speed; i believe this because of his balls-to-the-wall fearlessness. it's just that a 3:53 1500 in march will have nothing to do with it (which it sounds like you agree with). i never said anything about endurance (yes, he needs this to run 1:43, but if a 3:53 is an indicator of his endurance, it's a weak one no matter where he's coming from) or speed (yes, he needs this as well, though i don't know if he needs 44 speed). i assume there are more than a few 1:43 guys--everett and parilla (just barely) come to mind--who never even bothered with the 1500, so i'm not disparaging jock's effort or his courage for stepping out of his comfort zone. i suppose a more relevant question may be how many sub-1:43 guys never posted fast 1500s (just to pick a mark out of a hat, sub 3:40)? i know at least two: johnny gray (3:42-ish--i can't find his official modesto time) and borzakovskiy (3:41.53 indoors). any others?

All you Jock haters will be sniffing Jock's strap come Oly trials time.

Yes, and the other point is we really don't know if Jock has improved his endurance much. The small sample we have doesn't tell us much. He ran a 1500 last year a bit slower, but this doesn't say much. It would be as if he ran a 14:55 last year and a 14:45 this year. It doesn't say much of anything, as I haven't seen any indicator as to how last year's race played out, and whether he was simply doing a bit of overdistance work at a meet (which it sounds like). Consequently, we can say Jock's a stud but this result isn't the reason we know this, and doesn't tell us he's improved, even if he is likely to be improving anyway.

socal cush wrote:

[quote]jjjjjjj wrote:

i suppose a more relevant question may be how many sub-1:43 guys never posted fast 1500s (just to pick a mark out of a hat, sub 3:40)? i know at least two: johnny gray (3:42-ish--i can't find his official modesto time) and borzakovskiy (3:41.53 indoors). any others?

David Rudisha, Wilson Kipketer, Sammy Koskei (though he did run a 1:02:54 half marathon), Wilfrid Bungei,Patrick Ndururi, Frederick Onyancha, John Patrick Nduwimana, Norberto Telez, and Patrick Konchellah.

So 9 out of 25. A number of those 9 just didn't ever run the 1500, rather than run a "slow" one though.

Again, it's not about whether this is a good time for a 1:44 800m runner. Obviously, plenty of 1:53/4 guys could probably run 3:53 (ryan martin, a 1:45 guy, was behind him in the race). It is about whether he has improved his endurance relative to last year. That helps. Another year of track helps. Physical maturation helps.

"All you Jock haters will be sniffing Jock's strap come Oly trials time."

Only because he is going to shit himself after he realizes that he didn't make the team, the whole stands will be smell his "Jock's strap"

"I use to train with a group of pro 800m runners and we had one guy who was a 46x/1:45x 800m runner and he would take a walk break on a 5 mile 7mpm training run...some people are built for speed."

Absolutely.

Sprintgeezer wrote:

"I use to train with a group of pro 800m runners and we had one guy who was a 46x/1:45x 800m runner and he would take a walk break on a 5 mile 7mpm training run...some people are built for speed."

Absolutely.

And based on this, he did NOT reach his potential. Of course, there may be more to the story.

3:49.66 today at Fullerton

JockinOnYou wrote:

3:49.66 today at Fullerton

Link to results? When's he going to race an 800 anyways?

Jurgis Rudkus wrote:

JockinOnYou wrote:

3:49.66 today at Fullerton

Link to results? When's he going to race an 800 anyways?