400-1500 coach wrote:
On the other extreme, Kipketer's 1500 PR was 3:42.
but his PR in the mile was 3:59, indicating he probably could run faster than 3:42 for 1500m (any possibly did if they took the split of that sub-4 mile)
400-1500 coach wrote:
On the other extreme, Kipketer's 1500 PR was 3:42.
but his PR in the mile was 3:59, indicating he probably could run faster than 3:42 for 1500m (any possibly did if they took the split of that sub-4 mile)
XXX_NYC wrote:
400-1500 coach wrote:On the other extreme, Kipketer's 1500 PR was 3:42.
but his PR in the mile was 3:59, indicating he probably could run faster than 3:42 for 1500m (any possibly did if they took the split of that sub-4 mile)
Also, he ran those times in 1993, when he was a 1:45.46 guy.
Pinned x wrote:I would like to know what ventolin's calculator says about one's 800/1500 time with only 49.1 speed.
it is simple detective work
you put in mumbers & use your experience to get a decent line
now, i'm sure cram was peak in oslo & ~ 1'42.5 that day ( better than on his 1'42.8 day )
1'42.5 with
49.0 ->2'10.0 , 3'19.9 , 3'35.4
clearly nonsense
48.0 ->2'10.8 , 3'23.3 , 3'39.4
still that 400 is too slow
47.0 ->2'11.6 , 3'26.7 , 3'43.5
still too slow a 400, as he wasn't 3'26 potential
46.6 ->2'11.9 , 3'28.0 , 3'45.1
that one is pretty good, but maybe fraction too fast for 1500/mile
46.5 ->2'12.0 , 3'28.4 , 3'45.5
my pick
46.4 ->2'12.1 , 3'28.7 , 3'45.9
the 400 is now too quick as mile is too slow - he was much better than 3'45.9 intrinsic in his 3'46.3
Why are you unable to properly show a time in text?
For someone obsessed with theoretical times it would be nice to see running times not expressed in feet.
We're not talking field events here.
How can you be so sure that Cram was worth 1:42.5 on the day he broke the Mile WR?
He continued running at a very high level for the rest of the season, and I'm sure he'd have trained specifically to be at a (800) peak to face Cruz in the top meet of the year, Zurich.
What you don't take into consideration is that Cram was given pretty much the perfect race in Zurich. Not only did he run very even splits (51.2, 51.7), which was the way he ran his best 800 races, but he was drafted for almost 300m of the 2nd lap by Cruz. So he had a perfect pace maker and object to aim for right in front of him!
You've always based an athlete's "potential" for their fastest 800m based on the fact that they invariably run the entire 2nd lap solo with no drafting. If other top 800 guys had a pace maker drafting them to 700m, then their times would be quicker by about 0.5-0.7.
If Cram was left alone at the bell, no doubt his final time would have drifted out to 1:43 low. So your claim he could have run 1:42.5 in Oslo is somewhat flawed. Unless you mean he has Cruz pacing him to 700m in a slightly faster even paced race?
I'm pretty sure Cram was at his limit with 1:42.8 that day, and I think I remember him saying so himself at the time. He had the enormous benefit (not afforded the likes of Coe, Kip or Rudisha in their 1:41 and 1:42 low runs) of having an ideal pace for him with an ideal rabbit (Cruz) and ideal drafting to the home straight.
deanouk wrote:How can you be so sure that Cram was worth 1:42.5 on the day he broke the Mile WR?
easy
it's observational experience
knowing when a guy is at his absolute peak
learn
He continued running at a very high level for the rest of the season, and I'm sure he'd have trained specifically to be at a (800) peak to face Cruz in the top meet of the year, Zurich
no
he trained for '85 for 1500
he was 1500 champ & that was his wr goal
whatever 800 training he did, it was secondary to 1500 training & clearly an afterthought
What you don't take into consideration is that Cram was given pretty much the perfect race in Zurich. Not only did he run very even splits (51.2, 51.7), which was the way he ran his best 800 races, but he was drafted for almost 300m of the 2nd lap by Cruz. So he had a perfect pace maker and object to aim for right in front of him!
idiot
you've watched but learnt nothing
how many times does your peabrain have to be told that cram didn't look to be chasing a time that day but the scalp
he shadowed cruz like a rabid dog, completely ignoring the wabbit leading by 6m ahead in 50.6, continuing only with his total focus on cruz's back
if he'd wanted a tt that day, he wouda ignored cruz & gone thru in 50.7 stuck to wabbit
get it into your numbskull, his 1'42.8 was incidental to beating cruz - not the time goal
You've always based an athlete's "potential" for their fastest 800m based on the fact that they invariably run the entire 2nd lap solo with no drafting. If other top 800 guys had a pace maker drafting them to 700m, then their times would be quicker by about 0.5-0.7.
If Cram was left alone at the bell, no doubt his final time would have drifted out to 1:43 low. So your claim he could have run 1:42.5 in Oslo is somewhat flawed. Unless you mean he has Cruz pacing him to 700m in a slightly faster even paced race?
idiot
cram was chasing win, not time
he was nowhere in the shape of his 3'46.3
he was running butt-end of season after 3 wrs & 2nd fastest ever 1k
all he wished for that day was cruz - be it 1'44 or the 1'42 he got
that was a match-race - get it into your numbskull
I'm pretty sure Cram was at his limit with 1:42.8 that day, and I think I remember him saying so himself at the time. He had the enormous benefit (not afforded the likes of Coe, Kip or Rudisha in their 1:41 and 1:42 low runs) of having an ideal pace for him with an ideal rabbit (Cruz) and ideal drafting to the home straight.
drivel
he said the peak day of his life was oslo
at least 1'42.5 that day - & with solo last 400
Do people like you realize they have a deep pathological problem?
Eldrick, why do you have to be such an insolent dilettante?
I sometimes wonder if this was his most impressive 800.
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=CA#/watch?v=cceACL2S0UA
He had to slow down twice to avoid hitting the guy in front and stumbled at 220m He took off on the 2nd lap looking incredibly strong.
It was also a windy day. i know people who were there that day. i think he was in low 1:42 shape that day and I believe ran the last 200 under 24.
Did Coe ever beat Cruz?
Pinned x wrote:
I would like to know what ventolin's calculator says about one's 800/1500 time with only 49.1 speed.
You obviously don't know how ventolin's calculator works.
' 46.5 / 1'42.5 -> 2'11.95 , 3'28.34 , 3'45.47
or
~ 46.4 / 1'42.4 -> 2'11.86 , 3'28.32 , 3'45.47'
The faster end of the conversion for 400 to 800m is 4 seconds. I would say Cram is this type of athlete which puts him more in the mid 47's
Towards the end of his career and lacking fitness as he was unable to go early he was outsprinted in a lot of races over the last 200m That does not indicate someone with 46xx speed
He himself said he could only run 48 but I suppose you know better than him. You remaind me of a guy I knew who was giving a woman advice on childbirth - who had just had a baby!
ventolin^3 wrote:
Pinned x wrote:I would like to know what ventolin's calculator says about one's 800/1500 time with only 49.1 speed.it is simple detective work
you put in mumbers & use your experience to get a decent line
now, i'm sure cram was peak in oslo & ~ 1'42.5 that day ( better than on his 1'42.8 day )
1'42.5 with
49.0 ->2'10.0 , 3'19.9 , 3'35.4
clearly nonsense
48.0 ->2'10.8 , 3'23.3 , 3'39.4
still that 400 is too slow
47.0 ->2'11.6 , 3'26.7 , 3'43.5
still too slow a 400, as he wasn't 3'26 potential
46.6 ->2'11.9 , 3'28.0 , 3'45.1
that one is pretty good, but maybe fraction too fast for 1500/mile
46.5 ->2'12.0 , 3'28.4 , 3'45.5
my pick
46.4 ->2'12.1 , 3'28.7 , 3'45.9
the 400 is now too quick as mile is too slow - he was much better than 3'45.9 intrinsic in his 3'46.3
Ventolin deals with hypothetic figures combined with real performances and this is something silly.
This is quite fantasy like someone dream what he would do if he wins the lottery, and then act as he is a millionaire when in fact he is a poor man indeed.
We need to understand 3 things.
One is that each runner pb is a once lifetime performance (in the case the runner doesn´t repeat his own lifetime pb twice what is very rare). Therefore each event pb is an outstand performance that does reveal the standard talent of the runner but the exceptionally of once in a lifetime.
Secondly is that the very same day that the runner does his once lifetime pb in one determined distance event it´s not the same day he would run his other pbs in other distance events.
Thirdly. Since each runner got and trains one single distance event specialization, the other distance events that he does complete eventually aren´t at the same performance level that his/her event specialization.
Conclusion. As it´s impossible by mathematics preview or estimate what is the number of the lottery, it´s also impossible by mathematics estimate what would be the runner potential to perform and it´s impossible that ventolin can make estimate performances with accuracy. He does the same that everyone with coach mastery and experience in performance relate can do by empirism. No more no less.
Finnaly one example. Paul Tergat did win 4 WCCchamps, 10000m world record, HM world record, marathon world record but he got 3:41 in 1500m. What really matters ? Then ventolin needs to show us why his calculation works that EVERYONE THAT DOES 3:41 1500m pb performer does the potential to run 26:27.85, 56:18 and 2:04.55 because this is Paul Tergat factual not ventolin silly exercice of hypothetic calculation.
ventolin calls everyone idiot, though he´s the biggest idiot of all time thinking that you can calculate results at multiple distances. Cram said himself that he wasn´t fast enough to star a race fast, but he had good enough speed and a great endurance, aerobic power. 46,4 was something that even Coe struggled.And he was just as fast than Cram at 1500 but a WORLD RECORD HOLDER at 800. And the training of these guys was very different, Cram running basic fast endurance runs in the winter, ignoring the hard sprint/weight work that Coe did, no chance to go much under 48 at 400. The end of discussion.
clearly you are an idiot with little clue about peak performance
i'm talking about what cram couda run in his oslo form for 400 - mile
for tergat, it is simple
on his 10k wr day, his line of fit was prelim
~ 53.3 / 1'50.9 -> 3'35.3 , 4'51.5 , 7'26.7 , 12'44.2 , 26'22.2
the vid of his 12'49 is on youtube - he ran a poor race chasing komen/geb when he shouda backed off & run his own race & been a 2 or 3s faster, instead of dying in last coupla laps when he was on for 12'46 but faded to his 12'49
explain this :http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4203011&page=2canova :
Try to understand that a Dibaba able running 53" can easy run the WR of 1500m. Wang Jungxia ran 3'51"9 in 1500m and 2:24 in Marathon, and 8'06" in 3000, and 29'30" with the second half in 14'26", and NEVER could run 400m faster than 55"5 (this was what Dong Li, the WCh in 1500 in 1997, now wife of the head coach of Spain Miguel Landa, explained me when we spoke about the Chinese period of Ma Juren)
reply :
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4203011&page=4that's what was expected :
55.6 / 1'57.4 -> 3'50.7 , 5'14.0 , 8'04.6 , 13'56.2 , 29'09.9
or
55.5 / 1'57.3 -> 3'50.7 , 5'14.1 , 8'05.1 , 13'57.3 , 29'13.2
or
55.4 / 1'57.1 -> 3'50.3 , 5'13.6 , 8'04.2 , 13'56.0 , 29'10.7
( her 3'51.9 was a championship race with lot of uneveness & shouda been lot quicker 0
explain why the calculator predicted the 400m time of the greatest female track distance runner of all time to 0.1s ?
Thank god that you aren't a coach, Vento, and if you are then god help your athlete(s).
Really, it's time that you went back on your meds. It is your grasp of the sport and development that is in question here - regardless of the venom that you spew towards other posters - and it gets rather tiresome when you take over threads as you do so often. Please do yourself and others a favor by just biting the bullet and not posting YOUR drivel.
He had 46 second 400 meter speed. How do I know? Because he ran a 1:42 800.
Fat Boy wrote:
He had 46 second 400 meter speed. How do I know? Because he ran a 1:42 800.
You should change you nick to "Fat Stupid Boy".
He ran 1.42,88 thanks to his great endurance and ok speed (not the other way around). And 1.42,88 is closer to 1.43,0 than 1.42,0.