Shut Up with all the "Team Values" Crap Already

goes both ways wrote:

Keep in mind that the obligation goes both ways. If you believe that an athlete should be able to walk away from the team at any moment, then the team can also walk away from the athlete at any moment. What would you say if you heard that a coach simply dropped an athlete's scholarship with no notice in the middle of the season even though the athlete had been performing up to standards and had not broken any rules?

Nice to see someone posting something when they don't know the NCAA rules. A school cannot drop an athlete's scholarship in the middle of the season. They can only do it at the end of each school year. Try again.

The Bright Side wrote:

Moral or not, what LV did tells me this:

LV is out for himself, even at the expense of people who are counting on him.

I wonder what kind of impact his actions will have on his search for sponsors in the tri world. Who wants to do business with a guy who doesn't honor commitments?

You won't get hired in the "real world" if your resume shows that you don't stick around long. Heck, you wouldn't get a job waiting tables if the manager knew you didn't give your two weeks notice at the last place.

As a young guy, you're relying on the idea that someone will see you as a long term project. You want someone to pay you now just because they expect the investment to pay off years down the road when you really start to perform and they have you locked into a contract. If you're going to walk away when something better comes along, who is going to invest in your development?

Wiscoe wrote:

Nice to see someone posting something when they don't know the NCAA rules. A school cannot drop an athlete's scholarship in the middle of the season. They can only do it at the end of each school year. Try again.

The original poster here was just trying to make a point about commitment to an agreement

Wiscoe wrote:

Nice to see someone posting something when they don't know the NCAA rules. A school cannot drop an athlete's scholarship in the middle of the season. They can only do it at the end of each school year. Try again.

We're talking about right vs. wrong, not regulatory or legal responsibility. I'm not asking if the OP thinks it would be illegal. I'm asking if he thinks it would be wrong.

People bring up moral and legal aspects of this event. I believe he should have stayed till the season was over. Since he quit the team, does he have to repay the athletic scholarship he received? That is if he was on an athletic not academic scholarship.

Clearly, L.V.'s family is on here trying to do some damage control by trying to justify/rationalize his selfish act. What they fail to understand is that when chasing the American dream you don't screw your buddies in order to achieve it. He has every legal right to chase his triathlon goals. However, he did it in a dishonorable way. He should have finished the season, any decent person recognizes this.

obvious poster butthead wrote:

I guess Lukas will be voting democrat. No honor among thieves.

Couldn't agree more. As usual people here are just trying to perpetuate class warfare. The only reason people are complaining is because Lukas is good. They just want to punish him for his success. The 15th runner on the Oregon team never scored or did anything for his team but people here think Lukas owes him something just because he is a good runner and benefitted from 10 weeks at Oregon. Talk about entitlement. Instead of just whining about how good the top runners have it and how because of their success they owe something to the rest of the team, they should actually try working hard. Lukas only got where he is today through hard work and people who are not as good as him just haven't worked hard enough. It is their own fault for being slow and they shouldn't expect handouts from good runners.

I don't get all this team crap. Running ISN'T a team sport. Never has been, never will be. I am a Brit and so maybe I don't quite get the whole NCAA College stuff but I still can't see it as a team sport. It's clearly isn't. Nothing you do in a race can help or assist your team mate whatsoever unless you pick them up and carry them which is probably cheating and will show you down anyway.

I saw an interview with German Fernandez saying how the Div I XC champs was one of the easiest races of the season for him because he "ran for the team" and came 12th or whatever he did. Surely if he'd actually tried he would have placed higher than 12th and, shock horror, magically helped out the team by placing higher. By effectively sandbagging he lost out on a few points. Granted if he had gone out for the win and blown up he may have finished a bit lower but an experienced runner should know how to pace themselves.

One of the best things about running is that it's entirely individual, you have no one to blame but yourself. If you run bad, suck it up, if you run good, then pat yourself on the back. No one else has any influenced whatsoever. Steve Ovett used to play football (soccer) to a really high level in his teens but gave it up as he had to rely on his team mates where's in running it was all down to him.

Team sport? Not a chance!

Study guide for L.V.'s American citizenship test:

Quote #1

There is no "I" in "Team"

Author unknown

Quote #2

Together Everyone Achieves More

an acronym for TEAM

Author unknown

Quote #3

Many hands make light work

John Heywood

Quote #4

A dwarf on a giant's shoulders sees the further of the two

George Herbert

Quote #5

It's not our preferences that cause problems,

it's our attachment to them

Buddha

Quote #6

No man is an island

John Dunne

Team?! wrote:

I don't get all this team crap. Running ISN'T a team sport. Never has been, never will be. I am a Brit and so maybe I don't quite get the whole NCAA College stuff but I still can't see it as a team sport. It's clearly isn't. Nothing you do in a race can help or assist your team mate whatsoever unless you pick them up and carry them which is probably cheating and will show you down anyway.

In that case, I suppose that no one provided LV with state of the art athletic facilities for his training. I also would have to assume that no one paid for his travel expenses to meets. Oh, wait. Someone did do these things. Who was that. Oh, yeah, the XC team.

If you are a Brit, like me, you should understand the team concept of cross country races. We invented it for f's sake.

What?! This isn't some foxhole in Iraq. This isn't Sparta!Maybe the teammates were jerks too.It's ironic when so many on this board are hyperselfish individualists that they get up in arms when a guy acts 100% solely for himself. Bet you wish there was a community ethic now!

abacus wrote:

I take it you never ran for a team?

You don't walk off on your boys in the middle of the season. Simple as that.

Where is this team ethic when it comes to American economics and sharing?

One of the dumbers posts I have seen on letsrun.com. Congratulations. Crazy how someone so clueless about running and cross country can end up posting on a running web site. Why don't you try basketweaving.com, now that is truly an individual activity.

goes both ways wrote:

Wiscoe wrote:

Nice to see someone posting something when they don't know the NCAA rules. A school cannot drop an athlete's scholarship in the middle of the season. They can only do it at the end of each school year. Try again.

We're talking about right vs. wrong, not regulatory or legal responsibility. I'm not asking if the OP thinks it would be illegal. I'm asking if he thinks it would be wrong.

Got it. Sorry for being a d!ck.

goes both ways wrote:

Keep in mind that the obligation goes both ways. If you believe that an athlete should be able to walk away from the team at any moment, then the team can also walk away from the athlete at any moment. What would you say if you heard that a coach simply dropped an athlete's scholarship with no notice in the middle of the season even though the athlete had been performing up to standards and had not broken any rules?

It's been done before.

Bottom line - Lananna screwed up by depending on him in the first place. Freshman shouldn't be among your top 7 at a school like Oregon, for XC anyway. What the heck were your Sophs, Juniors and now Seniors doing the last 3 years? THEY should be the ones for your Regional team. This is Oregon afterall - the best distance school, that EVERYONE wants to attend - in the country.

Given Oregon's results, not so sure that everyone wants to go to the U of Nike.

Kennedy, Goucher, Torres, Ritz and even Webb were big time XC freshman contributors. So if LV deserved to be in that company, he should have been counted on to be in the top 5.

LV, you are no Alan Webb.

OP has a point. Running is not a team sport. First and foremost, everyone runs for himself. On top of that, you put a calculus system how to sum up points or times for the "team competition". But it's not like cycling where you're out in the wind for another runner or carry water bottles etc..

The only TEAM in running is relays.

I doubt we have all the facts about LV's choice. They aren't really any of our business, but we don't know.

If the situation is as it appears on the surface, the LV flaked out 2 weeks before the end of the season, that doesn't reflect very well on him. Certainly it is his choice to make, but it isn't one that seems, from what we know, to be worthy of much respect.

On the other hand, he's still just a kid. Kids make shitty decisions all the time. Learning how to deal with the consequences of them and putting the pieces back together is how kids become adults.

So, while bailing on his teammates at the key part of the season appears to be an exercise in douchbaggery and asshattery, we aren't walking in his shoes. I'm disappointed, but he doesn't owe me shit.