WILL RUDY CHAPA'S 10,000M RECORD EVER BE BROKEN?

Does anyone have any photos from Chapas 10k record run??

From The Stands wrote:

I think Eric Hulst also broke 29 (28:50s), maybe he had it.

I think Hulst finished behind Chapa at Drake. The record that Chapa beat would have been Lindgren's 29:17.6 from 1964.

You are fuqing clueless.In 1975 Chapa and Hulst broke Lindgren's mark at the AAU junior meet.In 1976, HS junior Billy McChesney ran 29;06, to break the Chapa/Hulst record.Eric Hulst ran 28;55 shortly after Billy's mark and then Chapa ran 28;32 at Drake.

mcgato wrote:

From The Stands wrote:

I think Eric Hulst also broke 29 (28:50s), maybe he had it.

I think Hulst finished behind Chapa at Drake. The record that Chapa beat would have been Lindgren's 29:17.6 from 1964.

http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/index.php/tafn-lists?list_id=34&sex_id=M&yyear=2008

That list is for performers, not performances.

coach d. wrote:

You are fuqing clueless.

You do realize that it is pretty easy to state facts without being a total prick.

mcgato wrote:

coach d. wrote:

You are fuqing clueless.

You do realize that it is pretty easy to state facts without being a total prick.

Well said. Can't we all just get along . . . .

When you coach D1 like me, you can do what you want.

coach d. wrote:

When you coach D1 like me, you can do what you want.

So, coach d, are we to assume that you have recovered from the shock of Rupp's AR?

I don't see it happening. Chapa, McChesney, Hulst, were in a dogfight at Drake in 1976 at the right time. Verzbicas ran 8:29 but late in the year. Same with Rupp when he ran 13:37. All equivilant to a 28:32. But to attack your first 10k after all the races they did, not likely. It's unlikely to ever happen again for an American high school runner running a typical high school season. I don't even think Chapa even broke 8:50 for 2 miles since he was probably running the mile most meets while his 2 sub 9:00 teammates were running the 2 mile.

Rupp tried it and ran 29:17. 25 laps is a totally different race on the track. Hulst and Solinsky already had a 29:00 10k accomplished as 16 year olds. You have to go through hell that last two miles and Chapa had that on his side.

Obviously the record will be broken. You would have to be a total idiot to think otherwise.

Now it may last another 40 years though since

1) It is a decent record. It might not be as good as the mile or 5K but it is solid.

2) the event isn't run that often. How many 10ks in the US are won in sub 28:30 every year that a HS runner can compete in?

If I remember correctly, the reason Chapa, Hulst and McChesney were running the 10k was because it was the easiest OT qualifier. Well Hulst at least also gave the marathon a shot. You need someone with that type of motivation (or the realization that they aren't fast enough for the 3k but are for the 10k). Or just chance. If Rupp had his 13:37 day (much better than the rest of his year) when he ran the 10k, we might be talking about who would break his 28:15 record.

Meant "McChesney" not "Solinsky". And if Verszbicas ran a 10,000 in the middle of the high school season like those guys did, at the Stanford or Oregon meet, he would have been capable of 28:20-30. Based on his two mile at Pre. Or not. It would have been pretty easy to go out paced at 14:15. I think Chapa's record had a lot to do with pride racing the other high schoolers in that race. Especially that last 3200 when you run you're first 10k. It's new mental territory.

coach d. wrote:

When you coach D1 like me, you can do what you want.

Doesn't entitle you to act like an arrogant ass...which you seem to do on a regular basis. If your coaching tact is no better than your behavior on this board, then I can only assume your results are disasterous.

It would have been sweet to see Lukas in a 10k of equal pace to his abilities this spring. Real close call right there. I think he could have gotten it, but if any variable is slightly off, he misses.

Mcmillan (only calc I have access to immediately) puts LV's mile and 2mile pretty much as equivalent, and then spits out 28:40 for 10k. We know LV more of an LD guy though which gives him the benefit of the doubt.

word is Lukas Broke it on a training run with Jerry Lengdren

Those calculators are a bit of a BS for this type of thing. Did Chapa have any other runs that were close to his 28:32? Did Rupp have anything close to his 13:37? Or Webb his 3:53?

casual commentary wrote:

Mcmillan (only calc I have access to immediately) puts LV's mile and 2mile pretty much as equivalent, and then spits out 28:40 for 10k. We know LV more of an LD guy though which gives him the benefit of the doubt.

Hulst and McChesny were not in the Drake race, dumb a$$.

break it up wrote:

Meant "McChesney" not "Solinsky". And if Verszbicas ran a 10,000 in the middle of the high school season like those guys did, at the Stanford or Oregon meet, he would have been capable of 28:20-30. Based on his two mile at Pre. Or not. It would have been pretty easy to go out paced at 14:15. I think Chapa's record had a lot to do with pride racing the other high schoolers in that race. Especially that last 3200 when you run you're first 10k. It's new mental territory.

asfdsaaf@sdsfgsd.com wrote:

Those calculators are a bit of a BS for this type of thing. Did Chapa have any other runs that were close to his 28:32? Did Rupp have anything close to his 13:37? Or Webb his 3:53?

casual commentary wrote:

Mcmillan (only calc I have access to immediately) puts LV's mile and 2mile pretty much as equivalent, and then spits out 28:40 for 10k. We know LV more of an LD guy though which gives him the benefit of the doubt.

If people want to talk about scoring tables and calculators, the IAAF puts Webb's mile at being worth about 27:44.

Here's a summary for those of you who are unable/unwilling to do your own research:

1975 Junior Nationals

Rudy Chapa (Hammond, Ind) and Eric Hulst (Laguna Beach, Calif) staging a shoulder-to-shoulder struggle that wrested a pair of national records from Gerry Lindgren. The Californian had the lead as both passed the 6-mile mark in 28:22.8 (Lindgren was 28:23.8), then reversed that order in a 29:11.2 10,000.

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1976 International Cross Country Meet

1) E. Hulst (USA) .............23:53.8 (4:48 mile pace!!)

2) T. Hunt (USA) ..............24:06.8 (4:51 mile pace!!)

3) N. Muir (Scot)...............24:17

4) T. Watrice (Fra).............24:23

5) A. Salazar (USA) ..........24:36

8) D. Moses (USA)...........24:43

11) M. Froelick (USA)......24:47

19) R. Serna(USA) ...........25:02 (5:02 mile pace!!)

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Eugene, Ore., March 20, 1976 - 17 year old Bill McChesney stepped onto Oregon's track against Paul Gies and Terry Williams.

Running unattached, Mchesney broke the U.S. high school records for six-miles/10,000-meters at the Oregon

Invitational relays. McChesney's 3rd-place time in the 6M/10,000 meter race was 28:09.4/29:06.8. Gies won in

29:00.4. Williams second at 29:05.8. Bill led through 4 miles before the Veterans (Gies & Williams ) took off

and leaving Bill to fight it out alone.

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Gainesville, Fla, March 26 - The Florida Relays -Rudy Chapa sets two PR's but....

The Hammond Indiana senior wanted a fast 10k to run under the Olympic qualifying time (28:40.0).

The race was fast, Mike Keogh won in 28:29.8, but after gamely going through the 2M in 9:10.0, the Junior

10k champion couldn't hold the pace. Once it was obvious that the qualifying mark was out of reach, the

disappointed Chapa slowed over the last mile.

Chapa placed 4th clocking 28:11.0/29:09.4 for the 6M/10,000m.

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Irvine, CA., March 28, 1976 - UCI Meet of Champions -10:30am - 10,000m -Hulst shoots for the Olympic Qualifying

time.

The vet, Gary Tuttle (28yrs) shadows the prodigy, Hulst (18yrs) @ 10,000m. Tuttle never ran faster than a 9:36

2 mile in HS while Eric was breaking records as a 14year old.

On a breezy day, two days after doubling 9:22 & 4:32 in a duel meet, Hulst put it on the line with Gary Tuttle

of the Beverly Hills Striders providing the competition. Hulst ground out the pace for 4 miles before Tuttle

pulled away and Eric couldn't hang on. Hulst finished with a gutty 4:45.0 to finish 27:58.0/28:54.8 6M/10,000

meters taking massive chunks out of McChesney's week-old records.

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Des Moines, Iowa, April 24 - Denied at Florida relays, Rudy Chapa came back with a vengeance at the Drake Relays.

In ideal distance weather, Chapa tucked in with the leaders and passed two-miles at 9:07 but unlike Florida the

Indiana prep did not falter and stayed right with the lead group. Although, Chapa ended up "only" 5th, but he got

a pair of prep records and more importantly to Chapa the Olympic Qualifying standard for his trouble. Chapa

cruised to a 27:37.4/28:32.8 6M/10,000m and thus becomes the first high-schooler to qualify for the Olympic

Trials at any distance longer than 400 meters in '76.

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June 12, AAU Nationals @ UCLA - 10,000 meters

In the last race which was the last chance for many athletes to qualify for the Olympic trials, prep Eric Hulst

took the pack out in a brisk 4:31. With little pace-making help, the Laguna Beach standout pulled the pack

through splits of 9:11 and 13:56. After that, he began to run 70-second quarters but needed to run 69's. At 4M,

Eric fell back eventually finishing in 6th in 29:30.6. Winner Ed Leddy (Knox TC) won the race in 28:46.0 was

also off the 28:40.0 standard but Leddy being Irish was already on his Olympic team.

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June 19, United States Olympic Trials @ Eugene Oregon

Rudy Chapa (Hammond) was not a factor in his heat of the 10,000, finishing a non-qualifying 6th in 30:36.4, compared to his April prep record of 28:32.8.

10,000 meters - 2 Heats. (3 qualify, plus 3 fastest and all under 28:45).

Heat II:

1) Bill Rodgers .... 28:32.8

6) Rudy Chapa (Indiana HS) .... 30:36.4.

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So, Chapa had the best high school time. For my money, decisively winning the Junior International XC meet like he did, not to mention soundly beating people like Thom Hunt, Alberto Salazar, and Don Moses (a VERY competitive runner at the time)is a strong argument for the greatest prep distance runner ever. But, again, it's my opinion, and not fact.

By the way, all these stats came from a GREAT site; runningentertainment.com. The first hit that comes up if you google "Eric Hulst".