Foot Locker/NXN

xc coach wrote:

This statement is such crap.

You hate Nike, that's fine, but shut up about the race. it is a great experience for the kids, promotes the best teams and programs, obviously you either run at or coach a lousy program and have never nor will you ever experience it.

I have taken kids to both and NXN is by far the better expereience both for the runner and the program. Yes, Coronado is nice, but that ain't XC, just a glorified vacation.

Bill, don't let your relationship with Nike sway your judgement here.

Their style of XC is not something the kids do at any other time in the season. That style is not practiced here in the U.S. in high school, so the kid's championship can't be fairly judged in a single race in that foriegn style. It's a kin to taking the best long track speed skaters and putting them in a championship race on a short track style course.

I don't doubt the trip is a good experience for the kids but the race itself isn't.

FootLocker is both, good experience and good race.

[quote]watchout wrote:

Yes, some years it is muddy, but some years it is not, and I can understand runners who are afraid to compete in the mud not wanting to compete at NXN.

quote]

Nike actually but out a video of the course being watered down the day before the race. I doubt that made the course Rupp certified.

But lets take an over crowded venue and make it muddy and sloppy on purpose and you can see why many kids don't want to compete in that race. When they could instead compete on a less crowded race on a better course and one that puts less chance into it.

Mud is slick and even the best most carefull running is more proe to slipping and injuring themselves. Dipsy do's are silly and dont belong in running, especially accomanied by mud. Are they trying to injure these kids?

I think the Nike format is fine if they only had a decent course for the kids to compete in the final race.

Yes, that was rather ridiculous (re: watering down the course), but what year was that? wasn't it 2005 or 2006? And if they hadn't done that, the course wouldn't have been so bad, there wouldn't have been that pileup (I believe that was the year of the infamous pileup), and instead of complaining about how 3 of the 7 years were unfairly biased towards strength runners due to the mud, the nay-sayers would only have two years to point to... which isn't too bad all things considered (weather isn't perfect, that's a variable anyone will face in life... outside of Southern California perhaps).

Maybe instead of focusing on how muddy it is every few years at Portland Meadows, we should be looking at the benefits of where the race is held... it's never unfair, in terms of temperature, as it is VERY consistent and almost EXACTLY matching the average temperature nationally at that time of year, compared to, say, San Diego with temperatures consistently about 20 degrees higher than the national average.

How about that question... what is more unfair? Having runners used to temperatures in the teens from the high plains or great lakes areas (or, God forbid, Alaska) compete in temperatures that are almost always over 60 degrees, often nearing 70? Or having runners run in significant mud once every three years or so (something no one is used to).

I beg to differ on this matter

In all seriousness, there are NO "normal XC conditions"

The kids from Florida likely deal with some serious heat in their normal cross country season

Runners like Trevor Dunbar coming down from Alaska dealt with freezing weather and snow

Residents of Montana and Colorado likely have much hillier and rougher-terrained courses

Certainly it might be absurd if they were to host the meet in a tundra or up and down the side of a mountain, but an irregularly muddy course dotted with admittedly strange obstacles is just fine. Lukas Verzbicas is living proof. I'm also an Illinois resident and I can tell you that our state course at Detweiller park is FLAT as a panhandle. There is a reason Lukas was able to run a 13:53 at the state meet, which virtually crushes any other time that any other state champion can muster up on their state course. Despite this, he still managed to win both NXN AND Footlocker at the end of his season.

Like some others on this thread have already said, good runners can run well regardless of the conditions

Has Nike announced Houston or Orlando as the next home for NXN?

As a VA high school runner, I may be slightly be biased but I think Ahmed Bile could have a very good year. Last year as a Junior, he was injured for around 1/2 of the season, started training late and still managed to become State Champion and a Foot Locker competitor. I'd look for him in the Top 10 this year. I'd also watch Thomas Madden and Sean McGorty to sneak in to FL Nationals.

bumb

From Arizona watch for Bernie Montoya to be a top junior. 4:12 1600 as a sophomore, state xc champion, NXN individual qualifier, he may opt for Foot Locker this year.

As for which meet is better, etc, it doesn't really matter for the typical good hs distance runner. Most guys know they're not going to win - they just want to place well and maybe break onto the national scene. So they want a good race with good competition. Qualifying and placing well in either meet will get you attention if that's what you're after. If one meet is clearly lousy, the word will get around and guys will stop going. Last year I know several runners who said they wouldn't return to NXN because of the course conditions. But that was just one year.

The course at Portland Meadows was NEVER watered down....I repeat- NEVER. As a matter of fact, one year water was actually pumped off the course for 36 hours straight before the race..... the best runners perform regardless of conditions....

That course favors no one.....

"

Yes, that was rather ridiculous (re: watering down the course), but what year was that? wasn't it 2005 or 2006? "

You guys do realize that it just rains a lot that time of year in Oregon? They don't purposely make the course muddy that's just how the state is that time of year.

Bump

Tom Graham 15:13 at WNC. decent shot to win south/ top 3 overall.

watchout wrote:

temperatures that are almost always over 60 degrees, often nearing 70?

Oh no! God forbid the kids be forced to run in such sweltering heat!

Actually you basically described my state course (PA). Hilly AF and frequently muddy. Really sucks if you don't do well on hills.

I think it would be nice if championship courses represented the middle range of most courses with some hills, a little mud maybe(but not intentional, as after 3 other races even a dry course is destroyed) and not something super slow or a grass track.

Anyone have results from the Penntrack meet in PA or the Cherokee meet in NJ?

I'm sure your people have not fared well at NXN hence the sourgrapes. FL is an individual race, NXN is a team CHAMPIONSHIP! Ask FAYETTVILLE-MANLIUS!