he is pretty bright all right.
he is pretty bright all right.
time machine wrote:However, I am not convinced that he was in the same shape as Hicham. I think he was in ~3'30 shape, under ideal conditions
both his 1500 & mile in '67 compare favorably with hicham
1500 - 3'33.1 :
- at even pace we are talking 3'30
- knock off 1s/lap for dirt to synthetic = 3'27
- knock off a sec for running in appalling 95F heat
= 3'26
mile - 3'51.0
- a jog for 3 laps & then a 53+ -> call it no slower than 3'50.0 at even-pace
- dirt/synthetic at 1s/lap for 4 laps -> 3'46
- solo run with no wabbit to bell, worth ~ 1s/lap for 3 laps drafting
= 3'43
3'30 is a severe underestimate
for mexico, post-mono, suggestion is that he had drifted out to something like 3'30-flat ( a good 4s slower than '67 ) which normally shouda been good enough for the win, but keino in great form
people have to throw out pre-conceptions & biases when they analyse these guys
yes, it does seem prima facie it's unlikely a guy from '67 was hicham's calibre, but what law of physiology says it is impossible ?
garry hill, the respected editor of T&F swears the tommy smith who ran 44.5wr on dirt in '67 wouda run low/mid-43 on synthetic back then, which woud still challenge the current wr of 43.18
some of the ole guys were very, very good...
lol lol lol lol wrote:Moron. RUNNERS were running on both synthetic and natural surfaces throughout the 60s and 70s. Aside from Mexico City, did records and PRs fall dramatically when they made the switch?
Time for your meds, you demented fool.
idiot
find me a race ryun ran on synthetic in '67
fetch it moron
no foul language please.
only footage ( brief ) of ryun's 1500wr
http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=44790
there have been 760 performances currently at better than 3'33.1
if anyone believes there have been 760 performances better than that at 1500, well...
ventolin^3 wrote:
idiot
find me a race ryun ran on synthetic in '67
fetch it moron
I get it, Mentolin. You don't need to face REALITY because your fantasy life is so much more enjoyable than your real, pathetic existence in which you are a powerless loser.
Some reality--evade if you wish:
Synthetic tracks were introduced in the mid 1960s, with the 1968 Olympic being the first major championship to feature them.
Despite your delusions, they didn't make a huge impact (probably because while synthetic surfaces are significantly faster when wet, they are only slightly faster when dry, and possibly not in the early formulations--primitive synthetic tracks were pretty soft and sticky).
Snell's 1962 800 WR lasted until 1973.
Ron Clarke's 1966 10,000 WR lasted until 1972. Ditto his 5000 WR.
Ryun's 1500 and mile records from 1967 lasted until 1974 and 1975.
Keino's 3000 WR from 1965 lasted until 1972.
moron
where is ryun's synthetic track run in '67 ??
as for rest of those - those guys are legends, far better than guys of early/mid '70s
snell - maybe low-1'42
clarke - maybe - 13'05/27'15
keino - maybe 7'32
all at 1s/lap conversion
better than wottle/wohlhuter/fiasconaro/viren/foster/puttemans
does your peabrain not comprehend this ???
ventolin^3 wrote:
moron
where is ryun's synthetic track run in '67 ??
as for rest of those - those guys are legends, far better than guys of early/mid '70s
snell - maybe low-1'42
clarke - maybe - 13'05/27'15
keino - maybe 7'32
I'm glad you didn't let REALITY interfere with your delusions. Nice to know we still have you as our village idiot.
arguing over PED users? you idiots.
ventolin and lol lol lol lol, do you guys think it is possible that time moves slightly differently now than it did 40-100 years ago? I just find it shocking that nobody in the world could break 30 in the 10k back in 1920 for example. This could obviously make it very difficult to compare Ryun's world records to El G's.
time quake wrote:
ventolin and lol lol lol lol, do you guys think it is possible that time moves slightly differently now than it did 40-100 years ago? I just find it shocking that nobody in the world could break 30 in the 10k back in 1920 for example. This could obviously make it very difficult to compare Ryun's world records to El G's.
Do you think I should point out to Ventolin-The-Retard that the earth actually weighed slightly LESS back in the 60s? I'm sure he's stupid enough to factor that into his magic bullshit calculator.
lol lol lol lol wrote:I'm glad you didn't let REALITY interfere with your delusions. Nice to know we still have you as our village idiot.
moron
you offer nothing
fetch ryun's synthetic race of '67 or f*ck off
Ovett never enjoyed chasing times. He was a racer, he loved winning. Whether he won in 3:30 or 3:45 he didn't care, he just loved racing and winning. In a tactical race I think Ovett takes it. His last 200m was crazy. He was unbeaten in 1500 and Mile races for 3 years... think about that for a second. He'd regularly run the last 200 in 25 seconds while waving to the crowd and showboating down the home straight. I think he was most vulnerable if someone went really hard from 600-800m out.
Both great athletes and it's hard to compare eras... they could probably race 10 times and win 5 each for all we know.
Ryun would smoke him. Going away. He is a 3:27.5 guy even in ovett's era.
Ventolin, you sound like you're 5, please go away.
All the top guys and where they finish
1. Ryun - taking over with 600 m to run and wins by ten metres. His talent is amazing.
2. Ovett - couldn't reproduce his Dusseldorf finish off such a fast pace. Was content being second to his boyhood hero. Now, he just wants to go home.
3. Herb - kept with Ryun as best he could and ran himself to exhaustion. Bitterly disappointed. Once described Ryun as "just another runner". Has had to eat his words. Percy couldn't get across the moat this time.
4. Morcelli - may have run better but was seemed satisfied beating El G
5. Cram - was prancing along in his majestic style very well until the last lap. Head started wobbling with 200 to go.
6. Snell - while Snell destroyed other Americans, once again he couldn't match Ryun. Nobby is pissed off, muttering something about Snell missing the hill phase.
7. Bannister - surprised himself and many others. Got everything out of himself. Just had that ability to hang on.
8. El G - weakened round the last bend. The testing is so stringent for this race so no extra help possible. Heard sobbing after the race. The king didn't call this time.
9. Landy - did well to get back into the race. Accidentally spiked Peter Rono. Stopped and checked to see how Rono was, then continued.
10. Bayi - lead until Ryun flashed past with 600 to go. Gamely held on for as long as he could. Crowd favourite.
11. Coe - the ballet dancer of the track. Ran like a chump just like the Moscow 800. Deanouk can't believe it. Is sure Coe must have run wide. Tells everyone Seb ran the quickest last 100 m. He's happy about that.
12. Aouita - spewing he didn't beat Coe. Was considering running the 5000 but there wasn't one on the program. Had the same disadvantage as El G
13. Scott - made a suicidal move after 600 m and is ruing his poor tactic. Really wanted to prove himself in this race. Actually got in front of Bayi for a hundred metres or so, then the field filed past him.
Rono - finds the early pace too hot. His lack of pcae over 800 is showing. He slows, is clipped and falls. Out of the race.
Walker - spent most of the race watching the race unfold. Pulled off the track with 150 to go. Just couldn't match it with these guys.
Pekka Vasala - reckons he would have won if he was invited.
oops i meant this
I had to update ryun, Ovett, Coe, Snell and add in Kiprop
By the way I am not American and have no reason to favour Ryun.
1. Ryun - taking over with 600 m to run and wins by ten metres. His rhythm is amazing. He's the Usain Bolt talent of miling. Malmo is wishing Keino was in the race.
2. Ovett - couldn't reproduce his Dusseldorf finish off such a fast pace. Was content being second to his boyhood hero. Would have finished witin 5 metres of Ryun but lost ground waving to the crowd as he passed Elliott.
Now, he just wants to go home.
3. Herb - kept with Ryun as best he could and ran himself to exhaustion. Bitterly disappointed. Storms from the track using language he wouldn't normally use. Once described Ryun as "just another runner" (or words to that affect). Has had to eat his words. Percy couldn't get across the moat this time.
4. Morcelli - may have run better but seemed satisfied beating El G.
5. Cram - was prancing along in his majestic style very well until the last lap. Head started wobbling with 200 to go.
6. Snell - while Snell destroyed other Americans, once again he couldn't match Ryun. Nobby is pissed off, muttering something about Snell missing the hill phase. Snell had another tiff with Arthur and decided to do things his own way
7. Bannister - surprised himself and many others. Got everything out of himself. Just had that ability to hang on.
8. Kiprop ran a faster last lap than all others but poor tactical sense left him too far back to have any significant impact.
9. El G - weakened round the last bend. The testing is so stringent for this race so no extra help possible. Heard sobbing after the race. The king didn't call this time.
10. Landy - did well to get back into the race. Accidentally spiked Peter Rono. Stopped and checked to see how Rono was, then continued.
11. Bayi - led until Ryun flashed past with 600 to go. Gamely held on for as long as he could. Crowd favourite.
12. Coe - the ballet dancer of the track. Ran like a chump just like the Moscow 800. His aerobic strenght got found out when up against the best of the best at their best. Those 5 k sessions weren't golden afterwall. Deanouk can't believe it. Is sure Coe must have run wide. Tells everyone Seb ran the quickest last 100 m. Deano's happy about that.
13. Aouita - spewing he didn't beat Coe. Was considering running the 5000 but there wasn't one on the program. Had the same disadvantage as El G
14. Scott - made a suicidal move after 600 m and is ruing his poor tactic. Really wanted to prove himself in this race. Actually got in front of Bayi for a hundred metres or so, then the field filed past him.
DNF
Rono - finds the early pace too hot. His lack of pace over 800 is showing. He slows, is clipped and falls. Out of the race.
Walker - spent most of the event watching the race unfold. Pulled off the track with 150 to go. Just couldn't match it with these guys.
DNS
Vasala - reckons he would have won if he was invited.
Abdi Bile - wasn't invited either, wonders why nobody talks about him.
great post !
you are a bit hard on rono though
he won gold in 3'35.9, running last 2 1/4 laps solo ( ran in lane 2 for 100m upto 700m mark )
he went ~ 60/60/56/40, which at even pace musta been near 3'34.0
give him a coupla secs for drafting if he had been on the circuit chasing after cram/elliot to tape & i think he was worth at worst 3'32.0 ( obviously long way behind cram/elliot who wouda been going 3'29/3'30 )
he was poor champ but not complete broke-dick
i do think it wouda needed a 3'31 guy to beat those quality of guys that day
Moron. Any old posts from you without you using this word? cretin. Effing idiot
ventolin^3 wrote:
lol lol lol lol wrote:Moron. RUNNERS were running on both synthetic and natural surfaces throughout the 60s and 70s. Aside from Mexico City, did records and PRs fall dramatically when they made the switch?Time for your meds, you demented fool.
idiot
find me a race ryun ran on synthetic in '67
fetch it moron
ventolin^3 wrote:
only footage ( brief ) of ryun's 1500wr
http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=44790there have been 760 performances currently at better than 3'33.1
if anyone believes there have been 760 performances better than that at 1500, well...
761 you forgot Keino's 68 1500m