Let's say you had a time machine. You go back and grab Jim Ryun ~'67. You grab Steve Ovett ~'78(debatable what his best day was). You put them on a start line. Modern day track and spikes but no rabbits and just them two in the race (1500m). Who comes out on top?
ryun = 3:33.1
ovett = 3:30.7
think about that for a bit and get back to me
not hard wrote:
ryun = 3:33.1
ovett = 3:30.7
think about that for a bit and get back to me
You're not too bright, are you?
Ryun and Ovett stay together until the penultimate lap. Ovett starts to pull away and they go into the last lap with ovett leading and ryun losing contact. If It's Ryun on a competitive day, then he rallies a big kick and nips ovett at the line while he is waving to the crowd. If not ovett destroys him and he jogs in around 4:1x.
I give Ryun a slight edge in talent, Ovett a larger edge in competitiveness. Two man race? Ovett, although the time wouldn't necessarily be very fast.
Steve Ovett would win if its held in Europe.But if its held in North America Jim Ryun could win easily.The environment gives effective results for each individual scientifically.
Henry
Henry Rono wrote:
Steve Ovett would win if its held in Europe.But if its held in North America Jim Ryun could win easily.The environment gives effective results for each individual scientifically.
Henry
Henry, in 1978 you would have beaten anybody anywhere at steeplechase, 3000, 5000 and 10,000.
jesse was a friend wrote:
Henry Rono wrote:Steve Ovett would win if its held in Europe.But if its held in North America Jim Ryun could win easily.The environment gives effective results for each individual scientifically.
Henry
Henry, in 1978 you would have beaten anybody anywhere at steeplechase, 3000, 5000 and 10,000.
Ovett beat Rono in '78. That said, Rono is a legend and was ridiculously talented.
Yes, after Henry Rono broke these world records in 1978:
5000 April 8
Steeplechase May 11
10,000 June 11
3000 June 27
On September 15, Steve Ovett broke the 2 mile wr and defeated Henry, 8:13.51 to 8:14.66.
Henry may have been a bit tired at that point, but your point is well taken.
Those two steriod users, who cares ?
If they each had the same coach, then Ovett takes it. IMO Ryun was somewhat lucky to have some "unintentional" tapering due to travel, to hit his PR's. Otherwise I don't think Ryun's (Bob Timmons) training program was geared towards peaking properly compared to Ovett's (Harry Wilson).
Both runners, same coach with the race at the one mile distance, it goes to Ryun easily.
tacomafan wrote:
I give Ryun a slight edge in talent, Ovett a larger edge in competitiveness. Two man race? Ovett, although the time wouldn't necessarily be very fast.
It's an interesting hypothetical.
I don't know who was more innately gifted, Ryun trained very, very hard while in his teens, Ovett relatively lightly.
Based on PRs, they were very similar in basic speed, but Ovett was stronger (8:13 to 8:25, etc.).
BTW--Ovett was not at his fittest in 1978, if he is to be believed.
you do realise the ryun of '67 couda gone sub-1'42 & sub-3'27 if on a '70s track with wabbits ???
it's a match-up along the lines of hicham v ovett or possibly noah/bernie/morceli v ovett
actually, fast or slow ( ryun was 800wr holder ), ovett didn't stand a chance
ventolin^3 wrote:
you do realise the ryun of '67 couda gone sub-1'42 & sub-3'27 if on a '70s track with wabbits ???
You do realize you are an individual with a SEVERE mental illness who badly needs MUCH stronger medication in order to control your delusions and prevent you from continuing to spout such unsubstantiated gibberish?
moron
listen to these - & note his 1500 was on a chewed up dirt track & his 800 on semi-synthetic grasstex :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkTPCspfwCI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qt8HIRvZNaM&feature=related
then estimate what those runs wouda been on a '70s track with perfect pacing & 70F for 1500m & not ill & rested for 800m with 2s +ve splits
ventolin^3 wrote:
moron
listen to these - & note his 1500 was on a chewed up dirt track & his 800 on semi-synthetic grasstex :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkTPCspfwCIhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qt8HIRvZNaM&feature=relatedthen estimate what those runs wouda been on a '70s track with perfect pacing & 70F for 1500m & not ill & rested for 800m with 2s +ve splits
Moron. Cinder is not dirt. Ryun ran many races on synthetic tracks and never approached his times on cider tracks. Moron.
Ryun & Ovett legally took steroids. They are fake athletes.
ventolin^3 wrote:
moron
listen to these - & note his 1500 was on a chewed up dirt track & his 800 on semi-synthetic grasstex :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkTPCspfwCIhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qt8HIRvZNaM&feature=relatedthen estimate what those runs wouda been on a '70s track with perfect pacing & 70F for 1500m & not ill & rested for 800m with 2s +ve splits
ventolin if you read the thread you should know that I am perhaps the only one on it (other than you) who understands that ryun's times were worth much faster than what they were. Everyone else has given it to ovett, whereas I am the one who pitted them as a (close to) even match. His 3:33.1 1500 was with a 46.5 opening 300m.
However, I am not convinced that he was in the same shape as Hicham. I think he was in ~3'30 shape, under ideal conditions.
And to everyone else, stop speculating about if they had changed coaches or training. We are picking up the EXISTING ovett and ryun from the past and putting them on a start line. AS THEY WERE. You can take Ovett from any day in the summer of '78 (say, the day he beat rono, or the day he won the euro title, or whatever day you think was his best) and take ryun from the day he ran 3:33.1.
lol lol lol lol wrote:
imbecile
you know clearly nothing about him
he didn't run 1 race on synthetic in '67
by '68 he was a shadow of himself with mono, after-effects which lasted rest of his career - a condition we now call "chronic fatigue syndrome" which last years, sometimes life-long & has no cure
he was running with this when he finally did start running on synthetic in the '70s, given the '68 mexico track was synthetic
ventolin^3 wrote:
lol lol lol lol wrote:
imbecile
you know clearly nothing about him
he didn't run 1 race on synthetic in '67
by '68 he was a shadow of himself with mono, after-effects which lasted rest of his career - a condition we now call "chronic fatigue syndrome" which last years, sometimes life-long & has no cure
he was running with this when he finally did start running on synthetic in the '70s, given the '68 mexico track was synthetic
Moron. RUNNERS were running on both synthetic and natural surfaces throughout the 60s and 70s. Aside from Mexico City, did records and PRs fall dramatically when they made the switch?
Time for your meds, you demented fool.