50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Today I ran almost 17 miles and first 11 at 6:13/mi. I rolled up bread balls sprinkled with salt into large grape sized balls. I nibbled on these about every 20 minutes. The balls would quickly get soggy in my palms after taking them out of my pockets which is gross but made them even easier to swallow. Felt great at the end of the run.

What do others eat during a marathon? Think this was my issue a few weeks ago at mile 19. I was eating Oreos (don't like gels) but was gulping down 2-3 every 45 minutes. Seemed OK at the beginning but hard to get down at the end. Also I think by mile 19 your body is under a lot of stress and lacks the ability to digest anything efficiently. The guy that beat me in my AG(both now 55) was constantly eating something small and ended up finishing in 2:43. I beat him easily in half marathons and want to figure this out. Maybe he is just better.

racist--check

anti vax bs-check

false confidence

classic let's run

RacerDb,

Nice to hear that the virus was a non issue! As for me I'm not prepared other than being healthy. This will be more than sufficient I hope. I'm trying to respect others fears and showing empathy unlike the above poster. Peace!

BigMango wrote:What do others eat during a marathon? Think this was my issue a few weeks ago at mile 19.

Your salted bread balls sound interesting, but it's hard to imagine dealing with them during a race. Maybe try a few different types of gels?

I'm not near your caliber, but I've run more than two dozen marathons. In the old days, I took only water, or Gatorade if available at the waterstops. For my most recent (3:07 age 58), I carried three gels that I consumed at maybe miles 10, 15 and 20? Don't remember.

I still bonked a bit. I had been cruising at 7:05 pace, but last two miles were at about 7:30.

I never eat anything during long runs -- only drink water -- and only if it's particularly warm (75°F). I like to keep things as simple as possible. But on a hot day I'll freeze a couple bottles of water, then place them along my training route.

Best wishes to all for 2022. May life treat you kindly.

It’s been four weeks since my last post and time for an update. Well done those with good results – may you long continue. As for me, my legs were very sore after my 10k on 12 December, so with that, family commitments and disillusionment as a result of the spiralling Covid cases here and threats of yet another lockdown I did very little until 27 December.

27 December to 2 January I managed 72km/45 miles. This last week to 9 January was:

Mon – 60min

Tues – am 40min – pm track session 8x300m

Wed – 35min

Thurs – am 40min – pm track session 4 sets of 500m then 300m

Fri – 60min

Sat – 30min including a hilly/muddy parkrun in 23:08

Sun – 40min

Total – 78km/48miles – I am hoping to build both mileage and speed over the next few weeks and then run some indoor races during February and early March, with a HM mid-March.

While we should all be free to make our own decisions, I find it disappointing how self-centred people can be over Covid. Both my OH and I are fully vaccinated, but my OH has a damaged immune system and fears that catching Covid would be either very unpleasant or fatal. Consequently, I need to behave responsibly and to minimise the risk of infection while mixing with others to some extent during training. However, if others are not vaccinated or do not behave responsibly they could infect me (less so my wife who mainly stays at home) and I could pass the infection on with very unfortunate consequences. I feel our responsibility to others is also important.

I have seen BigMango’s comments on cadence and stride length. I have always run with a high cadence (175-180spm during an everyday run) and a while ago deliberately tried to reduce this and increase stride length. The problem was that it gave rise to overstriding so needed a different approach. Rather than intentionally increasing stride length I am now going for exercises, for example to strengthen my calves (for more power) and to increase stiffness around the ankles (to reduce ground contact time) but exercises are definitely not a quick fix.

Congrats OGII, great effort and a Silver medal! Wish I could have gone to SD but a 4 week turn around from Club XC was too short and I needed that break. Great to see that Cush and a cdb also medaled.

Well said Across the pond and I'm in a similar situation. Be safe, be kind everyone.

As for my running, I don't have much to report and even if I did, it's probably not worth it.

Across the pond wrote:

I have seen BigMango’s comments on cadence and stride. I have always run with a high cadence (175-180spm during an everyday run) and a while ago deliberately tried to reduce this and increase stride length. The problem was that it gave rise to overstriding so needed a different approach. Rather than intentionally increasing stride length I am now going for exercises, for example to strengthen my calves (for more power) and to increase stiffness around the ankles (to reduce ground contact time) but exercises are definitely not a quick fix.

A few years ago I experimented with shortening my stride length -- increasing cadence and focusing on knee-lift and back-kick. To an observer I undoubtedly still appeared to be shuffling. It felt like I was expending more effort to run more slowly. In reality, I was going a bit faster with a bit more effort.

But I wasn't trying to be faster or more efficient. Mainly I was seeking relief from some hip and knee pain, and it was almost miraculous in accomplishing that. Instead of heel-striking, it became more mid-foot, making ground contact over my center-of-gravity rather than ahead of it. I think. No video to prove it. Most importantly, after decades of hip issues, never a problem since. And my shoes last longer.

Thanks Allen - we seem are close in race times and your marathons are impressive. Also something to be said about your consistency vs the 1-2 year wonders. My experimenting sounds similar to you and just haven't found something that works. My half marathon time predict about a 2:41 marathon but can't seem to get there. The salted bread balls yesterday (76F/70% Hum ) were easy to get to and eat while running compared to gels and other things I've tried.

I'm guessing that starting early and eating about 5-10 calories every 20 minutes might be the answer. Honestly - not really sure but my plan for my next hot weather marathon in a 11 days is to stuff saran wrapped salted balls of bread into my short pockets and eat every 3 miles. They sit perfectly in my palm and even get easier to digest after a minute of absorbing sweat.

Coyote Montane: sharing your running is always worthwhile

The week that was:

M- the Kohl’s Nine

T- Jackson Hills easy

W- 9M w/ 10(400/250) on the trail

Th- hour on the treadmill -8” of snow

F- hour on the ‘mill - 3” of ice

S- off

S- 19M @ 10:52 pace

Boston in 97 days

Enjoy the week

edit to above - 50-100 calories

I'm at about 201 at 10K pace and yesterdays miles done at MP(-5 secs) about 195. My shorter stride compared to the last couple of months was better on the hips. It is what it is and it might not be pretty but it works for me. I think my running form is similar to the American guy who won the 10k at the last Olympic trials. More of a quick shuffle than a powerful stride. I posted a video about 7 years ago on YouTube of me running at 5:30/mi and many thought I was full of it. I don't have bad form . It just looks slower than reality.

The fastest guy in my area has a 165 cadence at 10k pace and is never injured and looks efficient.

But I wasn't trying to be faster or more efficient. Mainly I was seeking relief from some hip and knee pain, and it was almost miraculous in accomplishing that. Instead of heel-striking, it became more mid-foot, making ground contact over my center-of-gravity rather than ahead of it. I think. No video to prove it. Most importantly, after decades of hip issues, never a problem since. And my shoes last longer.

Huge deal I work on this all the time maybe we should start OverStriders Anonymous Hi my name is Charlie and I am an overstrider;) I just can't seem to help myself maybe I should tie my shoe laces together;)

Allen I like your plan 10,half,full I might use it for mid D 400,800,mile;)

Only three more days u til orthopedist appointment.

I always feel bad about actually going.

I feel like in order to go to a doc, first you should have a compound fracture

I was injured on the second Wednesday in November.

At first the knee in back and along the side started becoming painful

Then starting on December 19th, I couldn’t put weight on it. I had to balance myself on the side of my bed then along the wall to the bathroom.. it eventually gets better that I don’t need to brace myself.

It’s still that way when I sit for awhile or when I get out of bed.

So, I thought I’d go to an orthopedist to see what’s up.

I’ll be back.

Charlie wrote:Allen I like your plan 10,half,full I might use it for mid D 400,800,mile;)

Ha! Looks good to me.

My tale of woe:

Only three runs last week. Wednesday and Friday were cold and icy, icy, icy. I was super careful with every step. A one-day thaw on Sunday -- dry pavement, but as usual I get on the softer dirt/gravel shoulder. Hit a slick bit of mud, nearly face-plant into a rotting deer carcass, regain my balance -- twisting my knee in the process. A bit sore, soon forget about it. Today, very sore, can barely bend it. Ugh.

Hi ATP and CM,

There are much more people in the same CV situation. We need to stay responsibly and not get confused. Wishing all families with vulnerable members a safe and healthy 2022.

CM, despite you are not doing some focused training in the moment it is interesting for me to follow your running. I am posting my total irrelevant running (only relevant to one person on the planet (myself) as it is before my family is waking up) because I want to share my fun doing this. And fun should be a main driver for running in our age, should'nt it? Your training log and of course other's increase my motivation to get out into the early dark and cold :)

BR

Hi Fellow Youngsters,

Hope you are guys are all training and racing well. And importantly no injuries so far, and may it stay that way. Hope you all ran well in the Masters XC champs. Haven't had a chance to see how everyone did but will do soon. Anyway my last week :

Monday:AM Easy 30 minutes PM : Gym

Tuesday: 10 minute warmup-30 minute tempo, felt strong , had a 5 minute jog then 4x10 second hill sprints -10 minutes cool down

Wednesday:AM 50 minutes PM: Gym

Thursday: PM 8 x 200 meters with 2 minute recovery. Ran in Dragonflys . Ran them in 40 seconds with a a couple in 39. Felt strong and relaxed. Certainly a good benchmark for the rest of the year.

Friday:90 minutes. Although I felt good the previous evening, still had a bit of rubbish in my legs

Saturday: Rest

Sunday: 10 minute warmup-drills and then 10 minutes of diagonals on a football field-10 minutes cool down

Overall a pleasing week, and although they don't look fast, that was the first time I had done a session of 200s and very happy to have pulled up well. Hopefully if I can stay injury free, some decent track times beckon. I haven't run an 800meters since 1989, and am really looking forward to running a few in the summer

So it's been quite fun trying out a new challenge rather than pounding out high mileage for a marathon

Ok my friends take care

Owain

Hi gang.

I have been a bit slack on the posting since early December.

My December was a mixed bag. Some annoying niggles mostly hip and hamstrings. Also copped a bit of a non Covid URTI courtesy of my 20 month old grandson Harvey. We decided to call it Harvid. I actually had 2 days off completely.

All up my December totals were 47 kms of kayaking, 320 kms of mountain biking and a lowly 120 kms of running.

My yearly "report card". 359 days of recorded training. 600 hours in total across all activities. 2 impressive numbers. 96,000 metres of elevation gain. 6.9 million steps.

January has hardly been heavy training.

1st. 9.5 kms of xc/trail running around Mt Baranduda with mate Chris guiding me around on his mtb. 330 metres elevation gain 75 mins.

2d. Off for a run with wee Scotswoman Fiona up Mt Maher. We got a bit directionally challeged and our 7 to 8 km run turned into 13 kms with 600 metres of elevation gain and took us 1 and 3/4 hours. Mid 30s celsius by the time we finished.

3d. 63 min kayak session. Also did a morning hike/jog up and down the singletrack from home. 1.4 km 100 m elev.

4th. Twice up the singletrack hike/run. 24 km mtn bike ride.

5th 8.4 km hip and hammy stiff so started as a hike but ended up a run 330 m elev gain 1 and half hours.

6th. 3 km hike with 135 m elev gain.

24 km mtn bike ride. Hit by a big storm pb on my segment 4.00 flat.

7th. Singletrack hike. 32 min kayak and 5 km run with 3 very easy 800s only around 4.50 to 5.00 km pace.

8th. Short elliptical and rowing sessions. 20 km mtn bike ride. Broke my chain.

1.8 km hike 110 m elev gain.

9th. 6.4 km hill run 470 m elev gain. 63 min.

10th. 65 min kayak. 3.6 km hike 150 m elev gain.

11th. Short elliptical and rowing session. 1.7 km steep singletrack 140 m elev gain. 21.5 km mtn bike.

Good work Mopac. How's the hammy now ?And also how is Harvey?

'mopac,

Your results looks quite impressive. Especially 96 km that brings you up to the Karman line. So, you are virtually in space!