@MikeF: fun to read. Congrats.
@MikeF: fun to read. Congrats.
Congrats on the 5k MikeF. My college coach Ralph Tate promoted Stim-O-Stam in Track and Field News. Came in packets of a half dozen pills as one dose. I posted this on LRC a couple of years ago:
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
Stim-O-Stam Supplement Useful? wrote:
Looking for more info on this supplement. Useful or no?
Coach Ralph Tate endorsement. Had my darkest colored urine other than chemotherapy.
thanks (and thanks everyone) for kind feedback on marathon. No, "trail" is misleading in this case. It was hard dirt in some places, occasional loose rocks, but for the most part the feel of a regular paved bike path. part of the "rails to trails" conservancy in US. if not for wind, i'd say quite a fast course (most of first mile downhill, then out and back fairly flat, no other significant hills). best, Dave
Orient wrote:
dhaaga,
Dave, congrats on your great race at the NCR marathon! What did the course look like? Does the word "trail" there mean that there was no or little pavement, but just an off-road?
M62, 5'11", 182 lbs
Age 23 bests: 16:04, 2:40:30
Age 43 bests: 17:10, 2:56:04
Age 58 bests: 18:58, 3:07:23
Thursday's "4.4-mile" turkey trot was my first race in more than two years. Good to be out there, but my hamstring didn't allow a full effort -- kinda had to just drag my left leg behind me. The course was hilly, with the last bit on a trail with exposed roots, wet slippery leaves and mud. Results say 4th place M60-64, 7:30 pace, but the course was more like 4.2 miles, so much slower than that.
Taking this entire week off to heal. Six days off last week didn't help much. I've been so focused on dealing with the chronic knee issues, I forgot there are so many other potential injuries always lurking ...
---------------
Owain: "1 mile of bends (jog)/Straights (Fast strides)." We called those "Ins and Outs" back in high school, and ever since then they've been part of my warmup on "track days."
KP: "19:50 for 5k 4th overall." Very nice, especially with that 3rd-mile climb. First place M20+??! Good luck at Club XC.
daagha: 15th overall and 1st M60-64 in 3:08:48 (age grade 81%)." Outstanding! Congrats. Barely a 3-minute postitive split, despite the hard first-half effort (uphill, into wind).
BigMango: "16,3 mi 2:01:34 133 bpm 4 miles 5 secs below marathon pace + 5 more 1-2 mile ints around 6:00/mi/." Impressive at the end of a 100-mile week! Looking forward to seeing how the marathon goes.
Racerdb: "18:45. For a 86.7% age grade." I'd say it's not premature to say "Dave is back!"
Olde Farte: This holiday week had much joy with the grandkids visiting for the entire week." Nice!
Igy: "Managed 3,000 yards swimming, 60 minutes spin bike, 4 miles walking, and 3 miles running." Enviable.
old guy II: "my PRs are scattered through the decades." May 1983 was probably my last. Rock it at Club XC.
amkelley: "bailed out after 2 flat tires." Yikes, that's some bad luck. Still, amazing volume for the week. Best wishes going forward.
Charlie: "IMO I am getting a big hormonal boost without metabolic stress." Yes, I think you're right.
Coyote: "I signed up for Boston and hoping for better weather than 2018." Great! Those condidtions in 2018 were unfortunate; you were primed to post a superlative time.
mopak: "ended up running 15 kms with 370 metres elevation gain in a leisurely 103 mins." Impressive that 6:45 per mile is "leisurely" at age 62. By comparison, at age 59 my two 15K races were 1:02:36 and 1:01:02, and not leisurely at all! At age 58, I was still under an hour; now at 62, probably 2 minutes per miles slower ...
MikeF: "Yesterday made precisely 49 years since my first ever marathon (Philadelphia, November 27, 1972) and I aspire to knock out ONE more 26.2 miler in 2022 in order to commemorate the 50th anniversary ..." My PR was at Philly, ten years later (Nov 1982). Also hoping for "one more" in 2022! Also, not a bad rust-buster 5K at sub-8 pace.
Newbi: "Time for some fresher legs. It is more fun to run on fresh, springy and speedy legs." Agreed! Although, I think age 14 was the last time I experienced that! Enjoy the snow. Winter wonderland heren this morning.
Newbi wrote:
My first find on Stim-o-Stam:
https://www.fda.gov/inspections-compliance-enforcement-and-criminal-investigations/warning-letters/stim-o-stam-ltd-523302-07192017
I found that too. Doesn't inspire confidence.
Hang in there Allen1959.
I haven't posted here for a while, but it seems worth doing so.
At some point during the past year, I quit running. A range of back issues--face-joint arthritis, several excruciatingly painful blowouts that had me spasming--finally led me to pack it in. Cycling had always been my Plan B. I like it a lot, although I don't love it as I love running, but it put no stress on my back. So I just gave up on running. I had no desire to continue in a sport where slow painful jogs meant that every step hurt.
About six weeks ago, my bike needed some work, so I took it to the shop. And I thought I'd try a slow jog. Crucially, in the day before that jog, I tossed a 6 lb. medicine ball from hand to hand for about 5 minutes. I'd remembered that once, a year or two ago, I woke one morning with no back pain, and that lack of pain happened to correspond with the fact that I'd done that back-and-forth toss the day before.
My first jog was a mile and a half, and it was very slow, around 13 minute pace. That's not a pace. I don't know what it is.
But my back didn't hurt. A year ago, when I was still running, the only way I could run was after a brisk 10-minute walk. Even then, it wasn't a sure thing. But on this first test jog, I had very little pain.
Over the past six weeks, I have come back on line. Amazingly, the little five-minute ball toss seems to have activated my back muscles, awakened them, in a way that greatly reduces pain. I've been able to start running after a 3-minute walk, or sometimes even no walk.
Two weeks ago I totaled 27 miles with a 7-mile long run. This past week I totaled 30 miles, including yesterday's 8-miler, which averaged 10:30 pace. Almost no pain. In mile 6 and 7 I suddenly got that "rolling" feeling of hitting a high aerobic, sub-threshold pace and being grooved to the rails. 10:07 and 10:06 pace. Last mile at 9:45.
These times suck, obviously. I'm four pounds over racing weight (my last race was May 2019) and have zero effective leg strength, which is to say I've done almost no hills and can tell that I lack leg power. BUT: I'm running again. And the world is in front of me. I had no soreness this morning. I'm absorbing the training.
During my year off, I genuinely assumed that I would never run again. And although cycling has brought me a lot of joy during that year, the love of running can't be killed off. I have kicked my bike to the curb! Until I am forced to return to it, I just want to run.
You all know that feeling.
The takeaway here is that it pays not to give up hope, even when you've given up hope. Keep trying new things. Keep noting small differentials in the matter of pain. Maybe there's some exercise you could be doing, some little tweak, that would make all the difference. Truth is, in late May 2020, I saw a terrific PT for my back after getting the diagnosis of facet-joint arthritis, and he gave me three exercises to do. They took about 20 minutes. When I did them consistently, my pain went away. By mid-June I was able to hammer a hard 8-miler over hills, finishing with an 8:18 mile. But I just couldn't bring myself to keep them up.
But now, with the medicine ball regiment, I seem to have stumbled onto a bare-minimum strength regimen that actually makes a difference.
To be continued. I'll post again when I do my first Sunday 10-miler. Never say never. Just don't. Or, if you've said never for a while, try again. You might get lucky.
Sorry, I should have noted age: I'm 63.
Kudzu, good to hear about your back improvement and return to running. The one orthopedic issue that I have is some facet-joint arthritis. In January I had to give up my rowing machine I had been using several times a week for 25 years after a couple of bad episodes of what felt like sciatica/back spasms. I now have to be fairly careful about any activities that require prolonged bending over, but otherwise my running and biking seem unaffected so far. I have been very consistent about doing a short routine of lower back exercises almost every day. The medicine ball toss sounds like another interesting option for stimulating those muscles. I look forward to hearing about that 10 miler.
Good to hear about your success Kudzu. Generally speaking the activity of running is linear, so adding some lateral movement, and core exercises to counter imbalances makes sense. Others may be fortunate in that such supplemental exercises are not necessary; I am not that person.
KudzuRunner, that's very inspiring! At least to this 63-year-old who often despairs of ever being able to really run again. I will keep looking for my equivalent to the medicine ball routine, and I hope yours keeps working for you!
Allen1959 wrote:
M62, 5'11", 182 lbs
Age 23 bests: 16:04, 2:40:30
Age 43 bests: 17:10, 2:56:04
Age 58 bests: 18:58, 3:07:23
Thursday's "4.4-mile" turkey trot was my first race in more than two years. Good to be out there, but my hamstring didn't allow a full effort -- kinda had to just drag my left leg behind me. The course was hilly, with the last bit on a trail with exposed roots, wet slippery leaves and mud. Results say 4th place M60-64, 7:30 pace, but the course was more like 4.2 miles, so much slower than that.
Taking this entire week off to heal. Six days off last week didn't help much. I've been so focused on dealing with the chronic knee issues, I forgot there are so many other potential injuries always lurking ...
---------------
[
mopak: "ended up running 15 kms with 370 metres elevation gain in a leisurely 103 mins." Impressive that 6:45 per mile is "leisurely" at age 62. By comparison, at age 59 my two 15K races were 1:02:36 and 1:01:02, and not leisurely at all! At age 58, I was still under an hour; now at 62, probably 2 minutes per miles slower ...
.
Sorry mate but you misinterpreted. 103 minutes as in 1 hour 43 mins. I doubt I could run 1 h 08 m for a flat 15 kms at present. This one apart from steep gradients had a number of fallen trees to negotiate.
Well done getting through that Turkey Trot despite your hammy issues. I hope you able to get those sorted out soon.
Yep....I forgot that they were called "ins" and "outs". One of my favourite workouts which I will unleash on my students soon.
Thank you so much for your response. This has to be one of the best online threads I have followed. No one verbally abuses anyone like on other threads, and so much helpful advice and discussion among like minded folks who want to keep running and racing well into their twilight years.
Have a great week guys
Owain Lewes wrote:
Well done getting through that Turkey Trot despite your hammy issues. I hope you able to get those sorted out soon.
Yep....I forgot that they were called "ins" and "outs". One of my favourite workouts which I will unleash on my students soon.
Thank you so much for your response. This has to be one of the best online threads I have followed. No one verbally abuses anyone like on other threads, and so much helpful advice and discussion among like minded folks who want to keep running and racing well into their twilight years.
Have a great week guys
Sure, anytime. :-)
BM G
BigMango wrote:
Are the screws in the foot because of a running injury?
The 4 permanent screws in my foot are to fuse together the navicular and cuneiform which have been bone on bone for some time...caused not by a particular incident, instead, from overall volume...113,000 miles will do that to a body part or two ;}
Well that has to be tough to deal with every day. My lifetime running mileage is probably in the 20k range. Unlike yourself, I have never been exceptional at any endurance activity and in the past found it easy to move on to another endurance activity when the injuries piled-up.
I told my self 6 years ago I will never get on a bike competitively and hoping this 6 year running streak of no major injuries continues. I'm realistic though and dream of being in my 60's and matching the times of some on this thread but I know the odds are long.
Best of luck with your foot.
'mopac wrote:Sorry mate but you misinterpreted. 103 minutes as in 1 hour 43 mins.
I am an idiot. You clearly wrote 103 not 63! But your fitness is definitely there. Any plans for a flat road race or track event in the near future? With the latest Covid concerns, I'm pessimistic about the upcoming races on my schedule -- hoping the Australia situation is better.
Owain Lewes suggested I bring over here something that started on a separate thread...
fisky wrote:
eurodonkey wrote:
Fisky, you referenced Sprint 8 on a number of threads. This looks very interesting to me as an M55 trying to age gracefully.
(For anyone who missed this: a session of 8 x [30 seconds hard, 90 seconds rest} had fantastic results for fat loss and naturally stimulating growth hormone among 40+ people in doctor-controlled studies. See
https://sprint8.com/)
How has it worked for you? How do you implement it and what else goes in your training week?
How hard do you push it? (knowing that 'sprint' to an untrained layman is many shades of grey to us)
Has it led to more or less injuries/niggles than steady running did?
Would it be sane do it more than 3x per week, perhaps switching exercises? For example 2 running sessions (200s or hill sprints), and swim / bike / row on other days?
We all know sports science studies run for 8-12 weeks and always show improvement. Can the protocols deliver long term improvement, or is it a "peaking schedule" to be done occasionally?
I do a modified version of Sprint 8. However, I've talked with Phil Campbell and he thinks my approach is fine for me as a 400/800 meter runner.
I do SIT 5-6 days/week. When I'm healthy, I only do a Sprint 8 every two weeks or so. The other SIT are weight lifts. I do two Sprint 8 running workouts... 8x150m and 30 second hill reps with a 90 second walk back.
I do them primarily to boost T levels and speed up metabolism. A year ago at age 73, my T level was 535. This is phenomenal. Most guys my age have T levels under 200. T levels under 100 aren't uncommon.
Sprint 8 works great on ellipticals, bikes, rowers, but an all-out 30-second sprint is harder because you're going at 100% from the first step, whereas on a bike it takes several seconds to get to peak effort. I told Phil that I couldn't run all out for more than 20 seconds, he said if I ran 20 seconds all out and physically couldn't run for 21 seconds, then that was a good SIT rep.
I don't think the average runner could jump straight into 8 x 30 second all-out sprints without risk of injury. I would recommend starting with 4-6 uphill sprints of 20 seconds with 90 seconds recovery. The 90-second recovery is critical. Reducing recovery time defeats the purpose of the SIT.
In my opinion, the risk of injury is less on machines. On machines, 30 seconds is possible.
Everything else is lifting SITs for me. I'll do a warmup set of, say, 12 reps. Then, I'll do 2-3 sets to exhaustion, which might be 18-22 reps or so. Then, I'll move to another exercise of the same muscle and do a moderately hard set of 12 followed by 2-3 sets to exhaustion.
In non-running SITs, the "to exhaustion" part is more important than the "30 second" part. The idea is to tap out the short term energy system and then give it 90 seconds to recover before the next all-out effort. If you go too soon (30 second recovery, for example) you lose the benefits of the SIT workout. Phil explains this in his book.
The key is to warm up and then do a short, hard effort to exhaustion in 20-30 seconds and then recover for 90 seconds. Then, repeat 8 times.
And here's the next part...now it's all here...
fisky wrote:
eurodonkey wrote:
Thanks for this!
So your only running training is 150s or hills every couple of weeks?
It would be very interesting if you could lay out a typical week of gym work. I presume those SIT sessions are 3-4 exercises each time (since you do 2-3 sets to exhaustion), and rotating body parts or exercise styles.? I know that if I did 8 hard sets of squats to momentary exhaustion, I wouldn't be squatting - or indeed running with any useful speed - for quite a while!
I've had four surgeries in the past 12 months so my routine is messed up. My weight workouts are typically 90-120 minutes 4-5x/week and it's just too much to list. If you go to Jeff Cavaliere's YouTube channel and look at his workouts for biceps, triceps, shoulders, chest, and back... I do almost all of those. I try to hit a body part 2-3x/week. I have a long list of workouts for each body part, but I don't do a specific routine. I just lift until I'm so dizzy I can't lift anymore. That's typically 75-90 minutes. For legs, I'll do stairmaster, leg press, calf raises, hamstring and knee extension machines, pistol squats, high bench step up/hop ups, and hip thrusters on the Swiss ball. I loved sled pushes, but no longer have access to a fieldhouse, thanks to covid. Heavy sled pushes are a GREAT Sprint 8 workout. Across the soccer field would take about 23-25 seconds, a 90-second recovery, and then repeat. I'd do them once a week pre-covid. I even bought soccer cleats to get more grip. Those were great fun and a super workout.
When I'm running in pre-season, I'll do 3x/trails... very hilly for about 40 minutes and 3x track... two of the track days will be Billat 30/30 workouts... 30 seconds running and 30 seconds jogging. On one of those workouts, I'll do 2 sets of 12x30/30 for distance. On the other, I'll do the same 2x12x30/30, but I'll track the average distance during the run portion and try to increase it week to week. The goal is to keep my heart rate up like during a tempo run, but to do the running part closer to my 800m goal race pace than I'd be able to do with a normal tempo.
The third track workout will be a little faster and a little longer recovery... maybe 200m reps with a 90 second recovery... very close to a Sprint 8 workout.
As race season approaches, I'll do one Billat and two 400m specific workouts every week. If my focus is 800m, I'll add 800m specific workouts in the last two months. Otherwise, I'll stick with 400m specific workouts.... something like 3-4 short fast intervals getting a little faster with each rep but not all out... Then a long recovery of 15-20 minutes... then 2 all-out 200m with a 30-second standing recovery. This is Roger Pierce's go-to workout.
Great interview with Steve Cram - says Jakob has no chance of WRs this year
I’m a D2 female runner. Our coach explicitly told us not to visit LetsRun forums.
Guys between age of 45 and 55 do you think about death or does it seem far away
2024 College Track & Field Open Coaching Positions Discussion
adizero Road to Records with Yomif Kejelcha, Agnes Ngetich, Hobbs Kessler & many more is Saturday