50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

MF,

Jim Hunt coached some masters runners in Reno nearly two decades ago. Among them several that migrated to Boise. We did several of his drill routine in the early 2000s. Good stuff.

Igy

Yes, he did. He gave me a few pointers "back in day." I now use them with the HS kids I coach. Coach Hunt's legacy will live for a long time.

Hey everybody. Mind if I jump in here?

Stats: 53 yo, 5'7", 144 lbs

Adult onset runner. Started in my 30s with 4.5 hour marathons and reached my "peak" at Boston in 2019 with a 3:12. I've been struggling with achilles tendonitis for about a year, which has limited my volume and intensity. I've finally got the heel problems to a manageable level and I am currently aiming for my hometown marathon: Taipei 12/19.

Strava Relative Effort Past 4 Weeks

229 | 395 | 375 | 373

HRV: Month: 42.1: This Week: 51.7 ↑ 22.3

About 60 km running

Mon: Rest

Tue: 3km E + 4km T effort + 3km E

Wed: Recovery 5km

Thu: 11.5km mod-high easy, sub marathon effort

Fri: 12km in the hills...

Sat: Recovery 5km

Sun: 5km E + 5km M pace + 1km T pace + 1km M pace + 4km E (I set the paces with a temperature adjustment in mind.)

I've been on LRC for a long time, but the first time posting here with you guys. Some great work being done in here!

Not sure what happened with the formatting. Yikes.

Reno wrote:

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

MF,

Jim Hunt coached some masters runners in Reno nearly two decades ago. Among them several that migrated to Boise. We did several of his drill routine in the early 2000s. Good stuff.

Igy

Yes, he did. He gave me a few pointers "back in day." I now use them with the HS kids I coach. Coach Hunt's legacy will live for a long time.

Christine Olen told me the drills were a good third of the workout….

Coach Jeff -- Nice to see you here! Welcome! Also it's great to see your training back on track. Eight weeks to Taipei, eh? I'm looking forward to seeing how it comes together for you. Chatting with son earlier tonight, he said he'd sign me up for the local marathon (May 2022) as a Christmas gift. Hoo boy.

I'm gonna try to mix-and-match my 2017 and 2018 training schedules: From 2017, a maximum four "running" days per week, never on consecutive days. From 2018, a nine-day schedule, but only one workout and one "long" run (in 2018 it was TWO workouts, a medium-long, and a long run).

As always, my emphasis, though, will be REST and RECOVERY.

Re: Orient Post "Greetings! Finally joined the 60+/19-/5K “club” yesterday."

Great job Orient! I have been working on a similar goal of getting back under 20:00 goal for four years now- lol! Got as close as 20:10 a couple years ago on an accurate flat but a little curvy course. Can't really complain however, as the goal keeps me focused and training fairly hard and according to the calculator I am running better than I did 40 years ago. But each passing year the reach seems a little harder.

My Week's summary:

43mpw with three decent harder workouts with just under 20% quality work (sub 1500m-5K race pace or effort):

-Good Fartlek early in the week with measured pushes of between 400 - 1600m on an often used and measured loop.

-Wednesday dirt track workout 3x400 2x600 4x400 with 1/2 jog recoveries - felt pretty good. Helps to run with others when doing these workouts!

-Saturday was my third Parkrun - Used it as a hard tempo run - no taper and 7 1/2 miles the night before - wet nasty slippery acorn walnut covered three loop course through the woods. There were at least 6-8 'puddles' on each loop. Had to navigate those very gingerly so I didn't fall on my *behind* (came very close a few times). Third behind a couple 30 year olds and recovered very (too?) quickly. Very easy four with my friend later in the day.

Easy 5 miler this morning - fought the urge to go back out this afternoon and do a few more. Gotta stick to the plan of doing fewer, but better miles. Run smarter not harder is my new mantra.

I probably should target some races before the weather changes drastically here in Michigan. Heading to the remote Upper Peninsula for an annual ritual trip starting Friday and planning doing several longer solo runs while there. So I won't be posting next weekend - No internet connection. So until a couple of weeks be safe all....

Igy

Thanks , Interesting how well you responded.

If I combine Van Akken and Gerschler do I get Zatopek?

Going to combine unpacked Gerschler with the 4x30 seconds complete recovery that has worked so well for me.

Rotate these 4 workouts once a week:

1.4x20secs at 800

2.4x45secs at mile

3.4x2 mins at 3k-5k

4.4x4 mins at 5k-10k

All with jog recovery for 4 or 5 minutes

Run rotate 20,40,60 minutes once per week

20 minutes at MP+10 secs per mile

40 minutes at MP+20 ''

60 minutes at MP+30''

Idea is to build/maintain strength during base/aerobic development

Charlie,

I think some of the descriptions of Igloi and his training do not present a complete picture. There was a lot of variety in the training; you never ran the same workout. With the change in cadence/tempo/speed it was far from dull. The man was most motivating and engaging. He “invited” you to double workouts. Spring of my senior high school year I was quite honored. He was dedicated, at the track 13 times a week, he expected the same. Off Christmas Day, Easter, and the last two weeks in August.

Igy

Charlie,

I write workouts for a small group of masters. We were doing an Igloi session a few weeks back and the youngsters were walking their recovery. That was an Igloi no no. In essence I told them they could tell me to bug off, but by walking they were turning a 5k workout to a 1500m.

Igy

As part of that, they were running too fast, and the heart rate was coming down too far. Same thing in Tinman Critical Velocity runs, the one minute recovery helps control the effort goal of keeping the heart rate in the zone. More effective in training groups of athletes than heart rate monitoring, in my opinion.

Question to the geeks:

I am training to increase my strength endurance. This means, I am doing a weekly workout which should give me rubber legs and shall not compromise my aerobic base building. So, I do not run on Tuesdays. I did today:

‐30 min drills and jumps uphill (about 70m with walk down).

- 8 x 40 sprints uphill with about 1:30 min rest for some breaths and slowly turning around and walk back

- 2 x 150 m uphill starting as fast to feel rubber legs upcoming after about half of distance. Actually, when fresh I would perceive the pace at somehow easy in the first half and rather slow at the end. Comparable pace loss as a 400m race where you tie up in the last 50 m.

Now, my question:

What is the physiological explanation of getting really tired arms in my slow 150m runs when my legs are becoming rubber legs? Simultaneously with getting tired legs my arm lifting muscles are getting tired as well. Like at the end of a 400 or 800 m race. However, during the whole training, despite building up a moderate level of lactate during the 40m sprints but which is limited due to the 1.5 minute rest there should be no high acidity hampering my physiology. As well, due to the limited work my arms have to do in this training, there should be no nerval fatigue in this muscles. How come the fatigued arm muscles?

Cheers

Newbi wrote:

...So, I do not run on Tuesdays...

Should read "...do no run distance on Tuesdays..."

10/11-5.5M @ 70%HR

10/12-12M @ 70% HR - still hot w/a side of ugh

10/13-4.5@ 70% HR

10/14-4(15:00/3:00)@MP - cool weather, finally

10/15-5.5M@ 70% HR

10/16-18M in 3:00 - @ 75% HR - cool , crisp, dry and the avg daily pace dropped easily w/o effort.

Still cannot do all my upper body exercises following the sprawl at the track but getting there. My arms miss the quiet strengthening that helps with the longer runs.

So much fun to read how y’all have adjusted your respective training to meet you goals and needs.

@Coach Jeff ROC: Welcome!

Well I set myself a little goal before turning 54. 60 days to run 450k, climb 20,000 vertical metres, 10,000 push-ups, and 2000 pull ups in the 59th day only have to run 12k tomorrow to have achieved this.

I ran 18:13 for 5k a month before the challenge now thinking of shooting for sub 18 in the coming months and even thinking of doing a few track races here in Australia.

Coaching is my passion but since we have been in lockdown it has worked out well. Would really like to give a mile a crack in the next 6 months to see if I could get under 5:10.

Hope everyone else is training well. Thankfully summer is around the corner here and lockdown is over!

The basics of training comes to enough effort/ enough recovery. What`s enough both to effort and recovery is

individual. What`s often not taken into account is that rest time is at least as important as the effort time.

SUPERIOR COACH J.S 1 wrote:

The basics of training comes to enough effort/ enough recovery. What`s enough both to effort and recovery is

individual. What`s often not taken into account is that rest time is at least as important as the effort time.

Do you have anything meaningful to add, ever, or are you going to be repeating the same platitudes year after year?

5566 wrote:

SUPERIOR COACH J.S 1 wrote:

The basics of training comes to enough effort/ enough recovery. What`s enough both to effort and recovery is

individual. What`s often not taken into account is that rest time is at least as important as the effort time.

Do you have anything meaningful to add, ever, or are you going to be repeating the same platitudes year after year?

Why change a winning team? )) Too many runners, and coaches as well , just try to complicate effective training .

It`s very simple how to train smart and effective at every age, but of course one have to know that simple " secret". :)

How’s your masters world record comeback JS?