50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Hard to imagine that you have something career ending.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Hard to imagine that you have something career ending.

I have taken a couple of weeks off and still very sore and somewhat swollen. From my research on this injury, it could take a very long time to heal. It did not help the fact that I just got back from visiting our kids in Alaska doing some hiking (which made it worse). I have had so many ups and downs. There comes a point when you have to ask yourself if it is all worth it. I have certainly been asking myself that question.

Rtype wrote:

KC: I follow Gene Dykes very closely. He got better when his kid coach started pushing him to train harder. He trains insanely hard as do a number of other 1% ‘ers. I believe he has relatively fresh legs but there are quite a number of people who have been good consistently since the 70’s.

Excellent observations about the outliers. I have no idea where my training is taking me, but I have a full-time career, enjoy the act of running and wouldn’t want to lose that to an overtraining injury, and have conveyed this sentiment to Kid Coach.

That said, he’s aware that I have some drive, so we’ll see.

All I can do is be mindful of the fact that injury is common, I could hit a time wall at any point, that maybe Genetics R Us, and that humility is really not a bad stance in a pursuit where you get paid in gift certificates.

Thanks, Mopac. Love hearing about traditional races like this.

socalcush wrote:

as for the "fresh legs" theory: not sure there's any science behind it. assuming our muscles/tendons have a fair amount of regenerative properties, outside of general aging, i'm not sure the miles i ran 20+ years ago did any permanent damage to me since i generally avoided injuries and have yet to have a surgery. i also don't think we have "radioactive half-lives" that will predict some sort of linear decline, even though i'm ok with using age-grading to at least give me a target to either hit or defy or be frustrated by--that said, i may more readily subscribe to the "fresh mind" theory and the enthusiasm that may come with new endeavors vs. the hard-to-escape-been-there-done-that mentality that afflicts lifers...

I agree there doesn’t seem much science behind it. Matt Fitzgerald brings it up in one of his books, noting that Bill Rodgers (not a hobby jogger) had a steep decline in his times when he hit 60. I think in 2020 I’ll have a better idea of where I am in the gene pool.

Re: Still looking for suggestions for a fairly fast 10k somewhere warmish in February.

socalcush wrote:

a good 10k, generally good conditions (though the last time i did the 5k about ten years ago it was cold and wet), is the redondo beach superbowl 10k/5k:

https://redondo10k.com/

it's been 23 years or so since i ran the 10k there, but it looks like the same course, and i remember it being fast, and there can't be many places on earth much better to spend a february than socal...

carpe crepusculum,

cush

Thanks Cush - I sincerely appreciate the suggestion. I drove through Redondo Beach 5-6 days a week when I used to live in Lomita and Westchester in the mid-1980s (I worked at LAX). The emotional scars from the experience of traffic and 60-65+ hour workweeks have not fully healed (just kidding - only a little bit). Although I enjoyed running in shorts on the beach in February while living out there, but won't be going back there for a vacation.

Looking like maybe a 10k near Mobile Alabama or a 5k in Lakeland Florida or...? Still open to suggestion from others.

Thanks in advance....

David Chavana Edinburg 10k

https://runsignup.com/Race/TX/Edinburg/36thAnnualAllAmericaCity10KRunWalkFunRun

Edinburg, Texas is in South Texas 60 miles northwest of Brownsville and South Padre Island. David Chavana is a long time masters runner and this race has a long history; well run. I coached track for 11 years at the University of Texas-Rio Grande Valley in the same town. The city is in the heart of the citrus and agricultural growing belt. Also snowbirds have winter homes or drive their RVs here winter months. The Mexican border town of Reynosa is about 15 miles to the south. One of the more culturally unique communities in America.

65 wrote:

Racerdb wrote:

Two weeks into my walking boot is going well. Contacted a guy about a Graston therapy package today. Very little to no pain these days. Easy to work in. Hope its healing! Gaining a few pounds but thats ok.

Have a good run,

Dave

Dave,

Best of fortune with the healing process. Don't rush the return. I don't know what is more painful- the injury itself, or the anguish not being able to run. I am experiencing a bit of both right now. Was going to run the USA XC race in a couple of weeks but that is out. It now has been over a year since I have raced. I am beginning to wonder if I will ever race again.

Rick

Rick,

Thanks... I didn't know you hadn't race in over a year. That may be me in a year! I'm getting to the acceptance point though where I'll be good either way this ends up. I'm pretty sure running is a big part of your identity just as it is with mine. And it always will be. I am thankful I had 45 "pretty good" running years!

Hoping for the best for all of us in recovery/rehab mode. I can assure you I'll be patient with my rehab plan as I will never run in pain again... And if that means not running then so be it.

Dave

65 — I’m also sorry to hear you won’t be doing the XC next month. I’m looking forward to meeting up with any and all on this board who are going there.

Re: Warm (fast) 10K Races in February

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

David Chavana Edinburg 10k

https://runsignup.com/Race/TX/Edinburg/36thAnnualAllAmericaCity10KRunWalkFunRun

Thanks! This is a definite possibility. I worked on a couple task force detail down that way decades ago. The only hitch is I have an indoor mile race on the Tuesday evening before hand, but I should (I hope!) be able to bounce back by Saturday.

I appreciate the suggestion.

Fly in and out of San Antonio would make a nice trip. Take a boat down the Riverwalk.

Charlie wrote:

AMK,BR enjoyed reading your race experiences.

Yeah me too any day I can run is a good day

lots of really slow stuff some sand dunes some treadmill

4x30' HIRT 10 percent grade 9.5mph Enjoyed this and felt great afterwards

400,100,200,400 Reps 1:37,18.5,38.5,83.x on the track

Race Goals: building year as I approach 65

sub 70 400

sub 6 mile

sub 20 5000

One of my favorite youtube health channels Decath Olymipian Dr. Sten

This one is on adrenal fatigue. One symptom of Adrenal Fatigue I relate to but attributed to LRHR was dizzyness right after standing up. Around 13:16 he claims a slow reacting adrenal is the cause.

https://youtu.be/ViBCHO6FSiI

Chas, thanks for posting that new research. I was doing the Runner 360 HIIT circuit for a while in my basement. I just looked. It’s 12x60 with 30 rests. You’ve incentivized me to go back to it at least once in a while.

KC,

A good 800m/1500m workout is 6 x 200m hard with 20 seconds rest. For you that would be about 36-38 each.

Igy

KCgeezer wrote:

65 — I’m also sorry to hear you won’t be doing the XC next month. I’m looking forward to meeting up with any and all on this board who are going there.

Come by the Jamul Toads tent and say hello. We'll have some high quality home brew beer if the park rangers don't notice us.

Happy New Decade 50+ers!

racerdb and 65 sorry to hear about your extended recoveries. My entry into the decade also uncertain as it's a few steps up then a couple back. There is no time scale on a lot of these injuries and sometimes no guarantee that we'll make it back. But somehow, over time we usually do. That said, I won't be making it to San Diego either. Was doubtful anyway, but certainly not ready. Hoping to be ready for a good road 5K in March.

2019 by the numbers, about 2,460 miles of running plus another 50 hours or so of aerobic cross training, with that particularly in the last two months of the year. Did 15 races from 1 mile road to half marathon, six of them A races; four of which went great, one good, and one an injured bad. Looking forward to 2020!

The year in review and goals for the New Year.

Female, age 61.5, 5’5”, 115 lbs

Lifetime PRs (all at age 33 and 103-105 lbs): 18:10 5K, 36:44 10K, 1:18:59 HM, 2:42:50 Marathon

60+ PRs: 23:47 5K, 49:49 10K, 1:46:18 HM, 4:01:37 Marathon

I set one general and two specific running goals for 2019: stay healthy as much as possible, break 24 minutes for 5K (which I had not done in 2018), and break 4 hours for the marathon (which I hadn’t done since I last finished a marathon in 2004). At the start of the year I thought the marathon goal would be much easier than the 5K. I was wrong. I ran 23:47 in my first try at the 5K but could only manage 4:01:37 and two DNFs in the marathon. I also did a pretty good job of staying healthy, losing no extended time to injury and suffering only one upper-respiratory bug in January and a brief, localized sinus infection in October. Apart from the two marathon DNFs, I finished ten races during the year at distances from 5K to marathon, winning my age group every time. The best women in my age group are way better than I am, but there aren't' many of them.

I’ve chosen three goals for 2020: stay healthy and enjoy running, break 4 hours for the marathon, and break 49 minutes for 10K. Sub-49 for 10K is really ambitious given how fast I’m slowing down and that my best 10K last year was 49:49. I still think I can run under 4 hours for the marathon but I wasn’t able to prove it last year. In my prime I was much better at the marathon than at any other distance--people who blew me off the road at 5K or 10K were tens of minutes behind me in marathons--but that doesn’t seem to be true any more. The ratio between my lifetime PR and my best 60+ time is between 0.74 and 0.76 at 5K, 10K, and HM, but only 0.67 in the marathon. Another way to put it is that if I had slowed down by the same fraction in the marathon as in the other distances, I would be running the marathon in 3:35-3:45. So I still believe 4 hours is feasible, and I have entered the full marathon in my local March race. I can always drop down to the half-marathon if necessary but I really want one more shot at the full.

Win or lose, I’m really happy to be generally healthy and still able to run at my age. Everything else is gravy.

Happy New Year folks!

Racerdb and 65: I’ll bet you’ll be back.

I raced 8 times this year and that’s pretty much a record for me given my long history of injuries. It’s obvious that miles have no meaning to me so I don’t tally them. Only one injury, a calf pull that I earned by overdoing it in the heat (lesson learned).

Apparently I do live in a slightly different universe that most here as earlier in the year I noted how I have no intention to “give it my all” in training, when most here noted they did. I’ve made it a point to minimize the role running plays in my life, to seek a balance.

But it doesn’t mean I’m not trying to get the most out of my minimal training. I have the, apparently, irrational idea that even on this minimal training there is no reason I cannot progress significantly. I really do believe that I, or, rather, most people, can consistently drop their regular training pace down a heck of a lot more than most believe. Because I also believe we are all natural athletes with quite a bit of untapped ability. I think most of the barriers to going faster are put there by none other than...ourselves.

My only goals are to stay healthy and go just a little bit faster than 2019.

Happy 2020!

The year 2019 was much tougher than I expected, but way easier than 2018. I started 2019 with the New Year’s Resolution Run 5k with 29:47. I ran the same race in a driving rain storm today in 27:25. Nothing notable other than the difference in how I feel.

I think for me it is better to focus on process than time benchmarks. On Sunday I planned to just rest and instead did 80:00 on a spin bike. That gave me 64 Igy (equivalent) miles and half as much running for the previous seven days. I should be able to move both the numbers higher in the coming year.

Hope everyone has a healthy and productive year.

Igy