50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Forgetful so quickly? That's a real shame, man.

I quite clearly posed this question in the post you chose to jump on:

Are you equally understanding of those who go the TRT TUE route to improved perfomances?

Anywho, sorry you missed the point yet it's frankly clear you're not even open to considering thinking differently than your entrenched bias. Run of the mill, indeed.

“I can file a TUE, compete and try for records, and never fail a PED test. It's not considered a PED in that circumstance, it's available to anyone who receives the diagnosis (few 50+ men would fail to) and can afford the treatment protocol. “

I don’t believe you can get a TUE for TRT, and the same would be true of marijuana products.

As for the 100 miles in 24 hours, I did 59 miles in 18 hours in 2013 and that was only walking as it was really about the number of steps (112,213 that day) not the number of miles. This was part of a competition/health initiative I participated in at work called the Global Corporate Challenge. Without going into all of the details, I averaged walking about 130 miles per week over the last 4 weeks of the challenge (which lasted 16 weeks in total).

I was having hamstring issues then. This didn't affect me walking but I completely stopped running at the time. If I do end up attempting this next year, I'll actually be running a certain portion of the distance (35-40 miles in total would probably be required) so I'll be able to do it faster. On the other hand, I won't be doing a lot of walking in preparation. At the very least, if I do try to do it, I could at least break my unofficial PR of 59 miles in one day, I would think.

It sounds like you've got more to deal with than I have (just with the arthritic joints alone). The compartment syndrome surgery was basically a release of the fascia (everything was too tight and getting irritated) - never had a problem with that again afterward. Agree that it's good to be running at all - but at the same time, I want to get whatever achievements I can get out of it at the same time. Taking it day by day at the moment - if everything goes OK will be running every other day for about the next three weeks and then go to two out of every three for the next step.

Needles McDoperface wrote:

Forgetful so quickly? That's a real shame, man.

I quite clearly posed this question in the post you chose to jump on:

Are you equally understanding of those who go the TRT TUE route to improved perfomances?

Anywho, sorry you missed the point yet it's frankly clear you're not even open to considering thinking differently than your entrenched bias. Run of the mill, indeed.

"Are you equally understanding of those who go the TRT TUE route to improved perfomances?" Has this ever happened (TUE granted for TRT)? Examples please.

Not true, and if true that would be sad and a travesty. Still I would never take a short cut even though my cancer made this the toughest time ever to regain my strength.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

“I can file a TUE, compete and try for records, and never fail a PED test. It's not considered a PED in that circumstance, it's available to anyone who receives the diagnosis (few 50+ men would fail to) and can afford the treatment protocol. “

I don’t believe you can get a TUE for TRT, and the same would be true of marijuana products.

There's a little known "Recreational Competitor Therapeutic Use Exemption" (RCTUE) that would probably cover TRT (medical need, i.e., middle-aged male with low T taken prescribed by a physician).

RCTUE wrote:

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

“I can file a TUE, compete and try for records, and never fail a PED test. It's not considered a PED in that circumstance, it's available to anyone who receives the diagnosis (few 50+ men would fail to) and can afford the treatment protocol. “

I don’t believe you can get a TUE for TRT, and the same would be true of marijuana products.

There's a little known "Recreational Competitor Therapeutic Use Exemption" (RCTUE) that would probably cover TRT (medical need, i.e., middle-aged male with low T taken prescribed by a physician).

https://www.paperrxsolutions.com/blogs/paper-rx-solutions-prescription-paper-and-pharmacy-blog/171619975-new-steroid-rule-from-usada-good-news-for-amateur-athleteshttps://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/prescription-steroids-get-a-quiet-exemption-1461365753

Thanks for posting. The nutshell is:

"Called the Recreational Competitor Therapeutic Use Exemption, the new rule allows master and amateur athletes to compete in low-level competitions while taking banned substances. In order to do so, the athlete must prove to the USADA that the individual actually has a medical need for the banned substance. Additionally, he or she must also prove that they are unlikely to win one of the amateur races."

Quick points to ponder:

*Under what circumstances would a non-competitive athlete at a low level competition even be tested? Seems mostly like providing a conscientious person a way to feel good about following rules than anything else - which is fine by me.

*What happens if the person then actually wins?

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Not true, and if true that would be sad and a travesty. Still I would never take a short cut even though my cancer made this the toughest time ever to regain my strength.

Igy - I'm relatively new on this thread and haven't even attempted to follow all of it, but I sincerely hope you are recovered and/or recovering well. My father passed in the 90's, a marathoner in his own right and certainly one of my inspirations. He was tough as they come, but it was not enough to overcome. You do what you gotta do to see the next sunrise, period.

Keep truckin.

Needles McDoperface wrote:

Forgetful so quickly? That's a real shame, man.

I quite clearly posed this question in the post you chose to jump on:

Are you equally understanding of those who go the TRT TUE route to improved perfomances?

Anywho, sorry you missed the point yet it's frankly clear you're not even open to considering thinking differently than your entrenched bias. Run of the mill, indeed.

Actually, you never asked Just Another Run of the Mill ex-D1 er that question. You asked me (in response to my post of 9/2/2019 6:53PM) but why quibble? Life is too short to quibble and split hairs.

As I said I am not an argumentative soul by nature and Just Another Run of the Mill ex-D1 er seems to have responded eloquently enough for both of us.

But since you asked and not duck the question. I don't need and wouldn't undertake TRT. I managed to pare :44 off my 'old man' 5k time through six months of hard work and refining an already healthy diet and lifestyle.

I am not going to judge others who undertake TRT. That is between them and their conscious.

I am basically racing the clock, my old AG times, and whoever is ahead of me - not to necessarily 'beat them', but to maximize my own performance. My sincere wish is for everyone to do the best they can.

There will be no further responses my me on this topic. Run far...run hard, you never know when it is your last race!

Just Another Run of the Mill ex-D1 er wrote:

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Not true, and if true that would be sad and a travesty. Still I would never take a short cut even though my cancer made this the toughest time ever to regain my strength.

Igy - I'm relatively new on this thread and haven't even attempted to follow all of it, but I sincerely hope you are recovered and/or recovering well. My father passed in the 90's, a marathoner in his own right and certainly one of my inspirations. He was tough as they come, but it was not enough to overcome. You do what you gotta do to see the next sunrise, period.

Keep truckin.

ex-Div I,

Thanks. I am lucky that my disease (Follicular Lymphoma 3a) is treatable and curable. The treatment taxes your system and I am sure I could have benefited from a host of PEDs. I am not much of a fan of any drugs generally, but did follow the doctor’s orders to a “T” which did not include any PEDs, and it seems to have worked. I am an old marathoner myself, but those days are past now. I am 69 later this month and a student of the sport, perhaps I would recognize your father.

Igy

Good points. Both marijuana and alcohol were once legal before being criminalized. Now alcohol is legal again and marijuana is trending that way. As for growing your own, I believe many states allow this.

Regarding the opioid epidemic, it should be noted that marijuana has been widely credited with helping addicts wean themselves from their deadly addiction.

I do agree that more study is needed. Hopefully the feds will get off their keesters and do something about it.

I’m posting a day early because I will spend all day tomorrow traveling. My six-day, 72-mile week:

Mon: 10.1 mile run, gym

Tues: 10.0 mile run

Weds: 10.7 mile run, gym

Thurs: 10.5 mile run, gym

Fri: 10.2 mile run, gym

Sat: Hit the road at 4 am because: (a) it’s still really hot here, and at this time of the year 4-7 am is the coolest 3-hr block of the day; (b) I have to travel 3 hours east and be fully alert to judge a bunch of student presentations at 8 am Eastern time on Monday, so I need to start moving my clock up; (c) very little traffic and a lovely full moon to guide my way. I ran 20.9 miles in 3:10 (3:58 marathon pace) and it felt great! Feeling really encouraged about the upcoming marathon.

Tomorrow I need to leave the house several hours before dawn to travel to the airport for my flight east, and will spend all day in planes, trains, and automobiles. I will need a day off anyway.

Have a good week, everyone! I’ll be stuck in an unfamiliar place having to run before dawn and show up presentable early in the morning, so this is likely to be a very light week for me.

*Week 431*

Howdy, 50+ers! Super-saturated with work, so very little to add here. Did a few walking stints and still taking stairs whenever I can, but have been mostly sitting on my keister (much too much, I'm afraid.) SAC's visit is in a week, so this is the last week to get all the credentials and what-not in perfect order. Amazing how time consuming all of this is. I can only hope that life returns to relative normalcy by weekend after next. Carry on folks, I'll get back to you.

All the Best!

Old Fat n Stoopid wrote:

Are you still in the Alexandria area? That is not too far from my neck of the woods.

....not exactly, but we are in the DMV -- per the postal service Rockville, MD, but actually too far south since moving a few years ago, so we can't vote in Rockville elections. I tell my students i'm from NoBeSoRo (north bethesda/south rockville), which was a runner-up in some developer's contest a couple years ago re what to call this area, but it doesn't seem to be catching on and mostly causes them to laugh at me.

fun week as I got over being sick:

M 1:25

Tu 2:15 double

W 2:00

Th 1:10

F 1:00

Sa 1:25

Su 3:00

My "beat Philadelphia" signoff last week only seemed to help for a half, so i'll try all caps this time. BEAT DALLAS!

have a great week,

Dave

amkelley: WOW on those miles!

lucKY: How bout a walking desk? I am a rehab engineer and it isn’t as weird as it seems, nor as hard to set up. I’ll help you pick out a fake, I mean ‘legitimate’, diagnosis to get the U to pay….You know you want it!

TU: 5 super-slow on treadmill (97 outside)

TH: 5 easy treadmill (97 outside)

SA: 5 with 3 at 8:51 pace (170 cadence)

SU: 5 easy

20 enormous miles!

My right foot hurt on TU. It wasn’t PF, just weird crampiness. But I was stubborn and stuck it out and it finally went away after about 3.5 miles. By TH as far as I could tell my foot was fine.

I’ve been working on increasing my cadence. If there was an over-striders hall of shame, I’d be a charter member.

Have a good week folks!

We are in full Indian Summer mode here, 50s morning and 80s afternoon. Today we will hit 91 they say, but highs in the mid-60s by the weekend.

Yesterday I ran a 2 mile road race and as expected raced one of my M 60-69 competitors. Last year he was almost two minutes ahead at the finish. This year he started within eye view at sub-8:00 pace which was more than I could handle, however he slowed a little past the mile and I passed him. He responded to the challenge with a surge, and I though “OK, just keep contact, and give it another shot closer to the finish.” At 1 1/2 miles you wind thru a neighborhood to the finish, cones mark the direction, but not course boundaries. So with 600 meters to go my competitor is slowing as he is taking a longer route as I run the tangents. As I pulled away I noticed him glare at me. I thought “I bet he says something.” Sure enough at the finish (20 seconds ahead of him) he says “You cheated.” I said the “No, I was running the tangents, the cones are not course.” Anyway, glad Ihad some fight and a little spunk.

I did not ease up for the race, logging 40 Igy Miles for the week, with two doubles. I think I am strong enough to add another 20 Igy Miles over the coming months. My week:

Monday: AM: 6 miles in the foothills with 8 x 250m hills @ interval pace; PM- 2.5 mile walk

Tuesday: AM: 50:00 spin bike; core; 3 sets weights; PM: 1,000 yard swim

Wednesday: AM- 2 miles easy; 1600m tempo @ 8:57 / 1:00 rest; 2,400m tempo @ 13:09 / 1:00 rest: 800m tempo @ 4:12; mile easy; PM: 2.5 mile walk

Thursday: 50:00 spin bike; core; 1 set weights

Friday: 2 miles easy; 4 x 200m interval @ 57-59 / 200m easy; 800m easy

Saturday: 2 miles easy; strides; 2 mile race (2.18 miles) 17:50 or about 8:20/mile; 2 miles easy

Igy

Igy, congratulations on the race effort. My last Masters coach, who also was my sons' college coach, would yell "run the tangents" at his athletes in XC practices if they weren't doing it.

I had another good training week of rebuilding my hamstring range of motion and strength, and a nearly perfect morning today as I went out and bought fresh donuts, headed to my son's house where we did and easy 5 miles on trails while he complained about lack of sleep, and then ate donuts and bounced my week-old granddaughter on my knees for about an hour. My daughter-in-law was at about 2x her usual donut consumption to get enough calories in. Total mileage for the week was right at 50.

M- 7 walking with strides

T- 8 hills 9:19/mi

W- 7 walking with strides

Th- 8 hills 8:41/mi

F- 7 walking with strides

S- 8 hills 9:10/mi

Su- 5 trails 9:18/mi

AMK nice 20.9 wish I could do the long stuff but vicariously is good too. Looking forward to your up coming sub 4 attempt.

IGY LOL! Nice Job. Next Year old sour grapes will really be crying.

Good week running just slower than LT works well me with the madd.

Lotta newbies so I am adding some info about me.

Age 63 Height 5'7" weight 132

Max HR 190 Resting HR 60

Running off and on for 25 years with my latest come back starting at 60 so 3 years which is good for me.

Masters PRs both at age 43 4:13 1500 15:57 Cert Road 5k

Recent race times 19:05 5000 6/22/19 and 5:53.37 full mile time trial (9/3/19)

Goals: sub 19 for 5000 road and track Jan Feb March of 2019

Volume:320 minutes a week evenly divided or 45 minutes a day

Easy 2 runs 2 x 45 90 minutes 108 to 132 HR

Easy 5x10 warmups 50 minutes 108 to 132 HR

Medium 3 runs 3x40 120 minutes 132 to 144 HR

Hard 2 runs 2x30 60 minutes 144 to 168 HR

Issues:

Mild Degenerative Joint Disease knees,hips,back

MADD myoadenylate deaminase deficiency affects how I train and race not profound but it is a factor.

Injury prevention reduced wear and tear IOW my FOCUS IS Increasing my Run Span. Run Span is what I call running into old age. I believe barefooted running in soft sand GREATLY increases my Run Span. Eventually we all lose elasticity to the point where the impact forces of running bottom out our ability to cushion these forces which results in soft tissue damage muscles tendons and joints.

Youtube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCR1yvJ-HpnplMBGvhfq6jQ/

M60 -- 5'11" 170 lbs

Sept 9-15, 2019

M- Off

Tu- 4 miles @ 8:33/mi (9:17, 8:48, 8:35, 7:33)

W- Off

Th- 4 miles @ 8:01/mi (8:50, 8:35, 7:42, 6:58)

Fr- Off

Sa- 4 miles @ 8:23/mi (9:36, 8:49, 8:07, 7:09)

Su- Off

TOTAL: 12.0 MILES

Minimum maintenance mode continues. The three four-mile runs were continuous hard efforts, progressions happening naturally -- felt like Lactate Threshold pace, start to finish.

Thursday, with an age-group-win gift certificate in hand, I drove to a running store in a neighboring city. I was determined to find a pair of stable, cushioned, low-drop shoes.

What I found was the New Balance More -- high stack, cushioned, 4mm drop, wide and stable, roomy toebox for my sensitive toes.

I've worn them for 8 miles so far, and they seem to be everything I had hoped for! And at my current mileage, they should hold up for a long while.

Igy -- In a race where everyone around me is misinterpreting the course - lanes, cone placements, etc - I find it difficult to decide whether to do the same, or run correctly while appearing to "cheat."

A year ago, I raced a 15K that include long (1-mile) sweeping curves on a wide roadway. The USATF certification map showed we had the entire roadway, but all the runners ahead of me (and behind, as far as I know) ran on the paved shoulder on the OUTSIDE of the curves.

That added a lot of distance to the course, and I would have had a huge advantage by running on the other side of the road.

And, more important to me, I would have had an accurate 15K time.

But I felt it appropriate to race the "same course" as my competitors, and not appear to be "cheating." I'm not entirely happy with that decision!

Have a good week, folks!