50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

KPdx, I strongly agree that hills are a safer way for old folks like us to get in higher effort workouts based on my training experience for the last several years. The majority of my racing is XC, so I do have a bias for hills as specific training though.

Charlie wrote:

Toxic aging is way worse than slowing down;)

Wow, there's been a ton of activity on this thread since I last visited five days ago!

Charlie, I agree with you 100%. Whenever I start to get discouraged about how slow I've gotten, I think about all my contemporaries who can no longer run at all (and, in a few cases, aren't even alive anymore) and thank my lucky stars for still being able to do what I can do. Thanks too, Charlie, for the comparison to the great Derek Clayton, understanding that the comparison is only in training style and not in talent or accomplishments!

I'm sad to see the ill feelings expressed by some posters toward others on this thread. I have no intention of trying to figure out who is being overly sensitive and/or who is being deliberately snarky. I'm grateful to be wired in such a way that I just don't tend to take offense when none is intended. In fact, I often don't take offense even when offense IS intended. This keeps me happy and sane, although it is sometimes frustrating to other people who find me insensitive and lacking empathy toward others' sensitivities. So be it.

I thought I'd chime in on the bit about whether walking "counts". I don't consider walking part of training, and I rarely walk for anything other than transportation or exercising my dogs. I do a fair amount of hiking in the mountains during the summer, but I consider that recreation for its own sake and not training for running, although scrambling up steep mountainsides at 9,000 feet surely has some training effect. When I'm too injured to run I normally ride a bike or bike trainer, which provides more cardiovascular benefit and is less likely to aggravate most running injuries. When I'm in such bad shape that all I can do is walk (e.g. recovering from a bad illness), I count those as zero days. But as someone pointed out, who's counting? We're not kids who have to be accountable to a coach. I threw away all my racing and training logs two decades ago in a fit of frustration and I've never started again. I keep track of my mileage on a weekly basis but I don't write it down anywhere for posterity. In the end, no one is going to give me a prize for having run more miles than someone else.

I'll also add that I never use pain medications or anti-inflammatories in order to run. Like many runners, I suppose I've developed a reasonable tolerance for low levels of pain and I don't mind running with something that's a bit ouchy. When the pain exceeds a low level, I quit running. I feel pain is nature's way of telling me to cut it out. I realize there may come a time when I'll have different ideas, but for now that's what I do.

Allen, I'm really sorry to hear about your knee issues. As several others have pointed out, getting a second or third opinion is probably a very good idea. My husband, a competitive cyclist and gym rat, started having some pain and a lot of snapping and popping in his shoulder a few years ago. X-rays and MRIs show some arthritis and a bone spur, but the three doctors he's seen about it have given him three very different opinions about recommended treatment and prognosis. (For now, he's dealing with it by not doing certain exercises, doing other exercises with different grips, and changing his pillow so that he puts different pressure on his shoulder when sleeping.) I definitely wouldn't believe the first guy I see.

My two cents' worth.

+1

happy birthday! great comeback from the ACL -- that sounds really painful. have you played soccer since then? I had to give up basketball in my late 40s b/c always getting injured. I miss it, but it wasn't an easy blend with running sometimes.

--Dave

Now That's Telling It Like It Is wrote:

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

In the spirit of respect please deliver the same message to those that purposely sow dissent, present company excluded of course. I’m not keen on you or anyone else who speaks with forked tongue. And in that spirit of renewed camaraderie and mutual support, please deliver your timely message to the “Best to Most” poster on Sunday. That only seems fair. Thank you.

+1

Igy, why don’t you do the mature thing and post using your registered handle. We are okay with posters disagreeing respectfully. This act of yours pretending to be someone else is getting tiresome and not fooling anyone.

oId guy wrote:

Now That's Telling It Like It Is wrote:

+1

Igy, why don’t you do the mature thing and post using your registered handle. We are okay with posters disagreeing respectfully. This act of yours pretending to be someone else is getting tiresome and not fooling anyone.

Sorry to disappoint you, that was not me.

Igy

amkelley -- thanks for those thoughts. I'm going to my PT on Monday, and seeing the MD in three weeks. Saw only the PA initially.

After this latest stretch of inactivity, this week I've been able to do the elliptical and leg extensions with quite a bit less pain compared to a couple months ago. So here's hoping.

I can sympathize with your husband regarding shoulder issues. I fell down some steps more than a year ago, and experienced the worst pain I have ever felt (and I've broken bones before). For weeks, any sudden movement would cause the same excruciating pain. Like crumple to the ground almost black out and sobbing pain.

But I ignored it. Now I have very limited mobility, and it snap crackles pops constantly. It's good enough ... I work around it. My doctor and wife have repeatedly scolded me for not having it looked at, and not having followed through with therapy ... or anything.

Re: walking. Except as very short distance transportation, or recovery between reps, I avoid it. Maybe because of a weak core, or previous back injuries, walking is very uncomfortable. Hurts my lower back.

Gimme my bicycle for low-impact training.

Re: Hills. I'm a big fan for all the reasons already cited. Even with my tender knees, there's much less pain going up, too (more pain going back down,). In fact, even now, if I set the treadmill at 5% incline, I can actually run for a few miles relatively pain-free.

Finally, happy birthday to the guy who just turned 50. Welcome to Geezerville. (I'll remember your handle nest time!)

I agree, hill work and hill sprints before any track workouts. It was the way I was taught for years. It's always made track work seem easier after time away.

Thanks for the birthday wishes, Allen and Dave!

Dave -- I've played a few soccer matches since then, but that's always resulted in some pretty significant aching and soreness for a few days afterward. Sports doc gave me the option of having the ACL replaced or not and I chose to go on without it since I really had no other damage to the knee except for the ACL rupture. He said I'll know pretty quickly what I can and what I can't do, and I know I can run the road and trails fine. That's good enough for me.

Allen -- turning 50 sure feels different from the other milestone birthdays! But I still feel young and that's what matters, right? Hope your PT visit goes well!

grandpaboy

runlebec wrote:

I agree, hill work and hill sprints before any track workouts. It was the way I was taught for years. It's always made track work seem easier after time away.

Make sure when you’re running them hills you stay clear of any cousins of the critters that chased down Peter Lebec.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

oId guy wrote:

Igy, why don’t you do the mature thing and post using your registered handle. We are okay with posters disagreeing respectfully. This act of yours pretending to be someone else is getting tiresome and not fooling anyone.

Sorry to disappoint you, that was not me.

Igy

It wouldn’t be the first time he used a fake username in support of something he had posted.

To the 50-plus thread folks:

If you recall last summer in the middle of my cancer therapy I was unable to post. This was caused by the individual(s) that was posting using a handle that resembled mine and even going to the trouble of registering that handle. The Troll even went as far as reporting my posts as fake further confusing moderators and blocking my handle. Here is an email sent to me by the LTC folks 7/23/2018:

“I finally figured this out. He's been banned. And also ghost if your real posts are getting deleted it's because the fake guy reports yours as being fake....”

Now one can ignore this type of behavior or address it for what it really is “a form of harassment.” This person, hard to imagine it being more than one, is sick. This sickness is far to common and hard for a rational person to understand. In a sense I am giving in to their objective, but rather than continuing to be both a target and a distraction I will step away for a bit. My progress has been good recently and I will post my first significant breakthrough if I am so fortunate.

Igy

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

runlebec wrote:

I agree, hill work and hill sprints before any track workouts. It was the way I was taught for years. It's always made track work seem easier after time away.

Make sure when you’re running them hills you stay clear of any cousins of the critters that chased down Peter Lebec.

It's the big quiet kittys that I'm more afraid of. Hopfully the cousins are still hibernating for a few more weeks.

Another plug for this book. I forgot it’s also about the authors near miss with the Boston blast and how he used running to deal with a midlife marriage meltdown.

https://saturdayreader.wordpress.com/2019/03/16/the-incomplete-book-of-running-by-peter-sagal/

*Week 404*

Greetings, 50+ers! Ahh! Spring break was a good kick-start, still pretty sub-standard, but at least I got out and did something (even if it was walking) every day. Got about 20-miles of effort and another 8-miles of walking for the week; log reads as such:

Sun: 5.0 mi in two walks: 3.0 miles fast (14:55/mi), 2.9 miles easy (18:20/mi)

Mon: 3.0 mi easy walk (19:00/mi)

Tue: 4.6 mi on the track (miles 2&3 were 7:50/mi avg)

Wed: 3.4 mi easy (8:57/mi)

Thu: 4.1 mi moderately hard (8:37/mi)

Fri: 4.2 mi w/(4:00 Brisk Walk/1:00 Hard Run)x8 (11:23/mi avg)

Sat: 3.5 mi easy (9:07/mi)

After two weeks of relative inactivity, I wasn't ready to start the week running, so I eased in the first couple days. And just to note, Sun and Mon won't go in the training log as mileage. Finally, Tuesday got back to running and did some each day the rest of the week. The track felt pretty good, and was able to include a 4 "on" laps at modest (low-to-mid 7's) pace. Wednesday was easy, but Thursday I struggled (to be fair, it was relatively warm and extremely windy.) Friday became a workout given that the 1:00 hard were all in the 5:xx/mi range for pace (here the walking will go in as mileage, because it was a deliberate part of a workout.) I was a little sore (especially in the right hip) for Saturdays short easy run. I should mention that during cool-down phase at the end of runs, which is usually about another 5 minutes of just walking, I've gotten back in to doing a little retro-running (2-3x30 steps or so;) it is really helping in loosening the knee back up post-run. Hopefully I'll be able to keep the momentum going, get some weight off (down to 187 lbs,) and get more distance in.

Great to see some good training and related discussion going on. Props to SCgal on the sprint tri. Sorry to read about the diagnosis, Allen1959, I can certainly sympathize. I suspect I'm getting some arthritis in the knees as well as the toes I've lamented on before. Welcome grandpaboy!

I'm with amkelley regarding unpleasant banter. My motto regarding detractors is "let it go!" You can't win by barking at people that you don't agree with, so why even try? Doesn't do you or the thread any favors.

Looking forward to your reports.

All the Best!

Oops! *Week 405*.....sorry

lucKY: Great to see you getting back out there! *week #* Where’s Allan Bennett when you need him?

Big congrats to Coyote Montane on the USATF 8K

Tue = 4 miles road with 10X 1 min on 2 min off

Thr = 3 miles easy. Calves sore.

Sat = 5K race @ 7:27 pace with miles of 7:39, 7:30, and 7:13 (23/278 Overall, 1st of 9 in M60)

Sun = 4 miles easy, rails-to-trails cinder, later today

This was a very good week where I saw some significant improvement.

Race Report, Short Version: The temps dropped from 70’s Friday through the night with a start temp of 39 and sustained 10mph winds with 20mph gusts. First 1.6 miles is uphill into the wind. Just kept the Garmin AVE Pace on about 7:40 though 1.6 miles. On the return trip I finally felt like I could open it up a bit. Just pushed hard to the finish, picking people off the whole way.

BEGIN LONG VERSION:

This is a big historic run in Roanoke, starting in this incarnation back in the 90’s. But I ran it in the 70’s when they called it The St Patrick’s day race. Not a single soul there remembered that but me.

In the last two weeks, adding the tempo on Thursday’s left me with sore calves. That’s a good sign and I expected to run in the 7:3x range until I looked at the wind prediction. At the gun everyone took off like children not having a clue how far 3 miles is. Actually…a lot of them WERE children, who fizzled quickly at about half a mile.

My ave pace in the first 1.6 miles uphill and into the wind kept slipping from 7:30ish to finally 7:41 at the turnaround. There was no cover from the wind and I had no one to tuck behind since I started passing people by half a mile as most people went out way too fast.

But when we changed direction the change was dramatic. Warm sun in our faces, wind at our backs, and a gentle grade downhill was conducive to really letting it rip. I was dipping under 7 min pace in sections and passing people continuously. The finish is uphill and that ate a few seconds and dropped my last mile back to 7:13. They do a nice job with the awards, move through them really quickly, and make the event enjoyable. The course was accurate, the timing was good, and the results were posted quickly.

I felt totally solid the entire way and this bodes well for the future. I knocked 40 seconds off my last race last month after being stagnant for a while. I’ll need to set new goals as 7:30 pace WAS my goal by July 4th. Originally, 7:10 pace was my ultimate goal given my limited miles, but I may re-think that. Starting last year my 5K race pace has been: 7:59, 7:43, 7:39, and 7:28.

END LONG VERSION

Have a good week folks!

RType CONGRATS! Nice jump in fitness plus u r enjoying your running so double win.

50 minutes a day average with 2 days post race 20 minutes , 40 minutes felt good by Wednesday did a 70 minute and 60 minutes on a nice trail

A recovery week all runs were 40 to 50 percent of mhr 108 to 120 beats a minute.

great race (and report)! congratulations.

I had a good pre-St. Patrick's Day [big occasion for my people] week:

M 1:45

Tu 1:45 double

W 1:50 double incl. 5 X 4:00 (2:00 jog recovery) at 3k-5k pace (average of 2:58 for the measured part -- half-mile on bike path)

Th 2:00 double

F 1:30

Sa 2:15 with 20:00 at half-marathon pace (just about exactly 3 miles)

Su 1:15

I think it was racerdb who noted that I seem to be doing a lot of mileage. That's partly an optical illusion in that I post time, which is what I've been tracking past couple years, and a lot of it is very slow. It's also less intrusive on the day than would appear, as a good fraction of it involves multi-tasking (e.g., reading the paper on treadmill in am while doing laundry, which is next door in our building; or running to and/or from work and thereby saving subway commute time). Still, I didn't run [or do supplemental stretching and strengthening] anywhere near as much when our kids were still at home or in early phase of my career or [especially] both, so it is a change for sure. Seems to help me manage injuries better than when I was doing a bit less volume but more quality.

have a great week,

Dave