Maggie Vessey runs 4:30 1500 in third heat of men's 1500 at UIW

For the Past 2 years incarnate word as put on middle school level meets for collegiate athletes. While i was watching the sprint events during the day, they were making the athlete run AGAINST the wind, that's just one of the many things they continue to do wrong. If anyone goes next year i will be surprised

lolcatroflcopter wrote:

Nichole Jones looked terribly out of shape, she ran the 1500 in Nike Frees and lead...she got blown away.

No wonder, if she were running in lead.

Krumm was doing more aerobic training centering on long intervals, similar what we actually use in our program for pure 800 runners (not 400/800). The others were not training for 1500 and did not perform particularly well at 1500.

Rudisha has NOT run a 1500. He was a 200/400 type, like his dad who has a 4X400 silver.

Regardless of Jelimo's preesent status, she WAS a sprinter who moved up. Your 1500 time doesn't matter than much if your 400 is fast enough.

Both #1 in 800 last year were 400/800 types. Running-addicted types may want to believe otherwise, but you can run a fast 800 without running anything over 1200.

Not if you're African, particularly Kenyan. They don't have the infrastructure in terms of coaching, weights, plyos, track facilities, and physical therapy to support world class sprinting. So athletes that want to compete at a high level like Rudisha and Jelimo move up to events where the infrastructure requirements aren't quite as severe.

Bottom line: plenty of people can and have run fast 800s without any real distance training at all. The endurance comes from workouts like 5X600 special endurance with long rest.

finally someone mentioned the unnecessary quotation marks

You're going to want to have your cells ready to turn out plenty of ATP in the last 120m.

in high school i ran 4:30 off 30 miles a week. maggie's a major slacker and doesn't understand what will bring her consistency in meets

Wow! That's great! Awesome! What's your 1500 now and your 400 and your 800? Oh yeah, and who's your sponsor?

a girl wrote:

in high school i ran 4:30 off 30 miles a week. maggie's a major slacker and doesn't understand what will bring her consistency in meets

is it running 1500s (in a fast time or at all) what makes you better at 800, or is it the training that you do leading up to races that actually makes you better at the 800? just throwing that out there....

vessey being so weak in the 1500 might give a clue as to why she is so erratic and why she goes out so slowly

-

this 1500 shows that her aerobic base is not good, so in a race situation she must go into oxygen debt at around 300 meters and then have to gut it out for 500.

That's got to hurt.If that was how I had to race, I would also go out at a turtle's pace and hope the adrenaline of the last 300 would get me through. Which is what she does.

So why is her aerobic base so bad?

(of course, that 1500 could have been at 70% effort - who knows?)

---------------------

QFE

Her very low-mileage training is based on avoiding injuries that she has suffered in the past. She and her coach consider her vulnerable in this regard and much or most of her aerobic training is done on machines (elliptical, bike, etc.).

agip wrote:

vessey being so weak in the 1500 might give a clue as to why she is so erratic and why she goes out so slowly

-

this 1500 shows that her aerobic base is not good, so in a race situation she must go into oxygen debt at around 300 meters and then have to gut it out for 500.

That's got to hurt.If that was how I had to race, I would also go out at a turtle's pace and hope the adrenaline of the last 300 would get me through. Which is what she does.

So why is her aerobic base so bad?

(of course, that 1500 could have been at 70% effort - who knows?)

I saw Nichole Jones literally run from her car and straight to the track which explains why she had on trainers. I got a chance to talk to her after the meet and she drove up from where she is living and got lost on her way. Nichole just jumped in the race with no warm up or anything...she had just enough time to get her number. Im not sure why she took off so fast but she was smiling after the race as if to be laughing at herself. Most people don't know Nichole was hit with what could have been a career ending medical issue after her freshman year at Baylor. I know because I got a chance to talk to one of the family members. They didnt tell me what it was but said her mileage is fairly low right now and she's building back into shape. I thought it was quite interesting to find out that Nichole placed 4th at the San Antonio half Marathon with a 1:18 finish. This was 3 minutes faster than what she did in high school and she has not had a long run over 10 miles yet since graduating. She said the longer runs just feels more natural to her. They are a really nice family and just seems to enjoy running...I hope things work out well for her. Maybe she should look at road racing since it seems to be more natural for her.

Too many of these: " ".

Maggie does a lot of cross training and that has to help her arobic capacity a little. I understand that if she were to run more and stay healthy she would improve. That being said with Lukas V.'s tri training and this gentlement from Yale busting a 4:02 mile on very little running I think we need to reevaluate the importance of high volume running for success in the middle distances. This kid from Yale has been hurt for years and runs no more then 10 miles a week and can run a poorly paced 4:02. Let's say the kid was healthy for the past 4 years and trained like Peter Snell how fast can he run. I'd say not much better. Let's say he runs a even split race. He could of run 4:00 maybe. His margin for improvement is limited yet he only runs 10 miles a week and cross trains a ton.

I'm sure you realize you're taking your life in your hands by suggesting on these boards that there is another way to success in mid-distance, other than by running high volume to develop a huge aerobic base. I happen to be a big believer in aerobic base development, but at the same time, I also realize not all runners are the same, and that there is more than one route to success. So I agree with you that this is an area that needs to be more discussed in this forum, and probably better researched and experimented with out in the real world.

Or put more succinctly, when it comes to aerobic base building, how much is enouogh? (As opposed to the good old more-is-better approach.)

Now here's the real test... Can we discuss this issue on here without getting all wrapped up in whose mother slept with which farm animals??

Before the regulars start in on my ancesters, sorry for the typo: enough

Build the aerobic base in the top HR zone 3/ bottom of zone 4 until you meet your old PR.

I read my post over again and it sounded confusing. I want to clarify that I estimate the Yale miler's current fitness is roughly 4 flat given he paced poorly. I would say his margin for improvement over his current shape is very small due to the fact that the best he's peer groups achieve is only marginally better (1-2%). I would love to see some research into cross training to develop aerobic conditioning v. running. It would be difficult to research due to the control issues. I think this individual from Yale and Lukas V. make a compelling case for cross training with results. I believe up until lately Lukas's running has been limited to 35-40 miles per week. That produced a 4:04 outdoor mile at 17. It will be interesting to see how his times evolve as he becomes a more traditional runner.

I have good data on an aerobic base building experiment using pool bottom running that I began November 1, 2010. Pool/land run ratio 80%/20% Nov-Jan, 84 mi/wk avg total both (pool 100 cal/mile conversion). HR max increased fron 183 to 190. Unbelievable. Age 51, 5'7" 136 lb. Developing spinal engine via 400/800m technique. February began integrating more land miles to 50%/50%. Land miles on grass/pine needles with flat sandals barefoot forefoot style (long 1km hills mostly). By March 1st, HR on land had dropped 10 bpm at every speed. Last week 47 mi pool + 47 mi land = 94 miles. FEEL GREAT!