USATF Strikes Again

Seems to me that they are making up the rules as they go along

publish or perish wrote:

http://www.usatf.org/events/2011/USAXCChampionships/entry/eligibilityRequirements.asp

Miss "I'm with the band" Greer, Opie,Fantasia or one of their minions better go in and add the rule about "must be eligible for worlds under IAAF standards" to the published eligibility rules for the meet ASAP.

Io cite an unpublished rule (and I've seen it published in other championships with team selection components)is only worth the inkjet it's printed with.

Did Herb and Merv change the tenor of race since they were about 3 or 4 seconds faster than the citizen runners?

USA Champs

1958

F: Mile; D: 21 JUN S/F:

1. Herb Elliott (AUS) 3:57.9 MRy

2. Merv Lincoln (AUS) 3:58.5

3. Ed Moran 4:01.7

4. Jim Grelle 4:01.7

5. Jerome Walters 4:01.7

6. Don Bowden 4:02.9

malmo wrote:If the USATF doesn't blink imagine the drama of 12 runners standing still at the start when the gun goes off, and the drone of clapping, from athletes and spectators alike, all standing in solidarity against the USATF.

You now have yourself a 'Rudy' moment and an international sports sensation, complete with a viral youtube video for documentation,

REMEMBER THE TITANS!

It will be interesting to see if the running media world covers this issue during the race

Rubbishing wrote:

It will be interesting to see if the running media world covers this issue during the race

I'm interviewing Jill Geer Tuesday afternoon and will have a transcript posted on my Running Times blog on Wednesday.

My apologies if I'm missing something but the entry standards at that link mentioned above

http://www.usatf.org/events/2011/USAXCChampionships/entry/

don't say anything about being eligible to compete for the US internationally from what I can tell.

Can any of the lawyers chime in about excluding Chirlee when the published rules from what I can tell say he's eligible to run? How easy and how much would it cost to get an injunction for him to run? We've still got 6 hours before the courts close out there right?

from the link:

"All Athletes

* All athletes must be U.S. citizens (with the exception of Masters athletes, who may also be resident aliens).

* All athletes must be 2011 members of USATF in good standing. USATF memberships may be purchased online, through your local Association Office, or by calling the USATF National Office at 317-713-4665.

* Athletes will not be permitted to compete unless they have:

1. Have a 2011 USATF membership

2. Completed the entry process

* Club affiliation: Athletes must be bona fide members of a 2011 USATF club in order to represent a club and score team points. All athletes entering as part of a club must be affiliated with that club as part of their USATF membership (an athlete's current affiliation can be viewed in his/her membership profile and as part of the online entry process). Athletes wishing to change affiliations can make such a request through their local Association (note that this request must be made by the athlete--see Regulation 4 in the USATF Governance Manual, Section III).

* Sponsor Affiliation: In addition to a club affiliation, athletes are able to represent one (1) corporate sponsor. This corporate sponsor must be a registered USATF Corporate Member and be part of the athlete's membership profile. Corporate Membership applications can be obtained by sending an e-mail to

membership@usatf.org

. All sponsor affiliations must be finalized by close of entries. No sponsor changes will be accepted after this date for the Championships.

* Unattached athletes are encouraged to join a local club or create a new club. Contact your local Association for information on starting your own club. "Unattached/Non-Scoring" athletes (those athletes not with a registered USATF club) may participate but will not be factored into team scores.

* There are no performance standards to participate.

smd wrote:

I'm interviewing Jill Geer Tuesday afternoon and will have a transcript posted on my Running Times blog on Wednesday.

Ask her what leverage she used to get Millrose to hire her husband's band as the first live entertainment at the meet in decades.

Now this is something worth talking about and supporting!

Can any of the lawyers chime in about excluding Chirlee when the published rules from what I can tell say he's eligible to run? How easy and how much would it cost to get an injunction for him to run? We've still got 6 hours before the courts close out there right?

wejo wrote:

My apologies if I'm missing something but the entry standards at that link mentioned above

http://www.usatf.org/events/2011/USAXCChampionships/entry/

don't say anything about being eligible to compete for the US internationally from what I can tell.

You're right they don't state it there, but this from the USATF Competition rules -

Page 16

1. Eligibility:

(a) In the Open Men's and Women's Indoor and Outdoor Track and Field Championships, the Junior Men's and Women's Track and Field Championships, the Men's and Women's Race Walking Championships, the Men's and Women's Open, Junior, and Masters Cross Country Championships, and the Men's and Women's Long Distance Running Championships, only citizens of the United States who are eligible to represent the United States in all levels of international competition are eligible to compete.

(In the Men's and Women's Race Walking Championships, Men's Long Distance Running Championships, and Masters Cross Country Championships, others may compete in a separate non-scoring division or race.)

Aghast wrote:

I agree but this could never happen.

You gotta believe.

smd wrote:

I'm interviewing Jill Geer Tuesday afternoon and will have a transcript posted on my Running Times blog on Wednesday.

Great! Here are three suggested questions for Ms. Geer:

1. Why does the USATF feel that its team selection process trumps one of the fundamental rights of US citizenship (i.e., you can't discriminate on the basis of the duration of citizenship, except for being president and vp)?

2. If the IAAF banned openly gay runners from world cross (say because it was held in a country where such behavior is illegal), then under the current USATF rule the USATF would have to ban openly gay runners from the US championship race. Does that make sense?

3. For the cross-country championships, why not have the IAAF-ineligible runners wear a special backtag, like those worn by masters runners indicating age group? Then no more (silly) concerns about the "tenor" of the race.

I was in fact pointing out that nowhere in the published rules for this event is the "must be eligible to compete @worlds under IAAF citizenship rule" addition. I have seen it included in other Conditions of Eligibility rules posted for past championships that had a "pick the team' component.

Soon we will be seeing statements like " Since USATF believes the 3 strongest contenders for our international team are sit and kick types we will bar all run from the front type runners from this years meet. We would not want them to get so far ahead that our chosen kickers could not overcome their lead when they started kicking from the 100 to go mark. We have also instructed USATF Officials to identify any runners not on the chosenones kickers list that get more than 4 meters ahead of the pack and strike them about the head neck and torso with a red flag until they drop back into their assigned place in the pack."

This will be called the if we call you forth you must finish fourth rule.

I understand starting in 2013 the USATF will have a revised hipnumber rule in place. That rule will say hipnumbers will be assigned by Opie and Fantasia and if you finish in a place higher than your hip number you will have to serve a year as USATF CEO before you are allowed to race again.

USATF new motto "We know your place and you better get used to it"

Related question can Carol Lewis serve as USATF CEO and still be the "Voice of American Bobsleding"?

if talent or rules mean you don't qualify to run the race for which you want to run the qualifier, find something else to do that weekend and stop wasting everyone's time trying to dramatize a rational rule.

Folks, make sure you have all your facts. The IAAF rules effect the USATF championships . A new IAAF rule that was created April 2010 dis-allows "new citizens.." He will be allowed next year, that's all. The USATF hands are tied from what I know.

JT

He was not allowed to compete in the USATF championship in our race in New Haven as well. We did allow him to run, and recognized him at the awards. He received a great ovation and no one got upset. I really like Joseph, and I look forward to seeing him Labor Day weekend. He and his agent are a class act.

JT20k wrote:

Folks, make sure you have all your facts. The IAAF rules effect the USATF championships . A new IAAF rule that was created April 2010 dis-allows "new citizens.." He will be allowed next year, that's all. The USATF hands are tied from what I know.

Nope. The IAAF rule says nothing about who can or cannot compete at national championship meets. The USATF could (and should) let Chirlee run at the national championship meet. He just can't be on the team for worlds, as that is where the IAAF rule applies.

So the USATF's hands are not tied, at all, for who competes at their national championships.

burninated wrote:

if talent or rules mean you don't qualify to run the race for which you want to run the qualifier, find something else to do that weekend and stop wasting everyone's time trying to dramatize a rational rule.

If it was just the "World Cross Qualifying Meet" you might have a point. But it's also the national championship, so it's not just a qualifier.

SomeActualData wrote:

JT20k wrote:

Folks, make sure you have all your facts. The IAAF rules effect the USATF championships . A new IAAF rule that was created April 2010 dis-allows "new citizens.." He will be allowed next year, that's all. The USATF hands are tied from what I know.

Nope. The IAAF rule says nothing about who can or cannot compete at national championship meets. The USATF could (and should) let Chirlee run at the national championship meet. He just can't be on the team for worlds, as that is where the IAAF rule applies.

So the USATF's hands are not tied, at all, for who competes at their national championships.

Posting the parking rules in the metermaids ticketbook and not on the streetsigns sure puts a parker at a disadvantage.

If every person on this message board became a member of USATF and took an active role, a rule like this could be undone.

I can see a rationale for not allowing non-US citizens in a race. (It is weird when your national champion finishes 13th overall in a race.)

However, I think when determining qualification standards for a world's team, you can simply have a clause that the team will be made up of the top X finishers who are qualified to compete internationally. As noted in many places, some runners compete with no intention of taking a spot. Most of the time they are up front about it. However, if it is a national championship, I am not sure that person's presence should impact the strategy.

Also, I bet the Amateur Sports Act does not allow USATF to keep someone out just because he/she is going to decline a spot. If the person qualified, legally he/she has can compete. (Assuming the person has not violated a rule like doping).

USA Cycling has a rule that allows military personnel to compete in national championships, even if the person is a citizen of another country. Of course, those are rarely events that qualify for elite world championships.

Bad situation that I bet will be changed for next year.