Dathan did not need to change his form, says Brad Hudson

POTD.

The coach-athlete relationship is not a romantic relationship. Contrary to what some of the guys on this board might think.

Dathan has made the mistake of entering the SALAZAR MARATHON JINX PROGRAM.

If you run a good debut with Alberto you will become a guinea pig for all of his hair brain schemes.

If you run a poor marathon debut you will be dismissed as an athlete that is not cut out for the marathon.

BUT, YOU WILL NEVER IMPROVE EITHER WAY.

Hindlehoffer wrote:

POTD.

The coach-athlete relationship is not a romantic relationship. Contrary to what some of the guys on this board might think.

I agree that some of the post use some bad analogies. I do believe that if you think of it as a job it is in a fairer light.

If Ford Motor Company fired you in a public forum, how eager would you be to return to Ford Motor Company if they asked you back? Pride would have me say no.

how did those 70's guys do it !?

"The one thing I will say is that Terrence showed me some of Hall’s training. In order to run 2:05, you are going to encounter some tough situations. You can’t run 2:05 without taking a risk. I saw Ryan’s training for the trials. I was there in Central Park. He was unbelievable winning it. It was so much harder than what Dathan and some of my other athletes were doing. Hall was already mature enough to handle that sort of training."

The comment about Hall's training was pretty telling. How often to you hear that in distance running, especially amongst Americans, that, "Hey, he was training much, much harder than we were; that's why he killed it."

He claims Bekele heel strikes in the mud. Thats just not true.

"Dathan did not need to change his form, says Brad Hudson"

Just like he didn't need to increase his Lactic Threshold or his VO2max..... Why improve your economy? Why not just focus on the physiological aspects of running and not the movement that is running?

Yes, focusing on thumbs is silly, but focusing on landing closer to a position under his center of mass so that he can more quickly displace his mass in front of it is not useless. It reduces concentric muscular loading and reduces the angular velocity of the leg cycle.

Saying he didn't need to change his form is equivalent to saying he didn't need to increase his speed at 4mm/l of lactic acid or 2mm/l of lactic acid.

It was a great interview. A few idiots on the message board just don't understand most of it. It's typical for people to lash out at what they don't understand.

Nice interview Brad!

You're as retarded as he is if you think Bekele forefoot strikes on the track but for some reason switches to heel striking in xc. What benefit would that provide him? What normal person alternates the way they strike the ground based on the surface? WTF?!

I'm glad people are calling BS on this. Keeping things honest can be a messy business but it's what brings me back to this site.

I had the same initial reaction as others: I can see Bekele changing his cadence, stride length or knee lift based on terrain, but heel striking in softer surfaces gives no sensible advantage, and has significant drawbacks.

just want to say, I don't think he literally means that he switches form on a different surface. I think he was trying to say that he does easy/slow runs on softer surfaces (mud) and heel strikes while on these slower runs

that being said, he might still be full of it, I don't know

The first mile was practically 6 minutes for God's sake. So his performance was at least the equivalent of a 2:11:33. He could have a ran a 5 minute first mile just as easily.

That really doesn't mean much, but I was just throwing that out there ;D

Placebo wrote:

I'm glad people are calling BS on this. Keeping things honest can be a messy business but it's what brings me back to this site.

I had the same initial reaction as others: I can see Bekele changing his cadence, stride length or knee lift based on terrain, but heel striking in softer surfaces gives no sensible advantage, and has significant drawbacks.

Renato Canova says the same thing...actually, I think Brad is reiterating what Canova has stated multiple times.

Wish I could find the exact quote..

"Regarding Bekele, my opinion is that he's the greatest specialist of cross all-time, may be only Ngugi could be at a level close to him. The main quality of Bekele is the ability to change his attitude according to the type of ground. Normally, athletes very reactive (for example, Gebre or Shaheen), that have their most important mechanical quality in their reactivity, need a hard surface for using their attitudes. They have very reactive feet, short tendons, and the tension of the elastic fibres is very high and able to react quickly. Do you remember the feet of Gebre and Shaheen ? They are runners that never touch the ground with the back of the foot. In this case, the "shock absorbers" are in their fibres, and hard surface is the best situation for a fast action. This athletes can be good on track and on road, normally not so much in cross, expecially if muddy. That's the reason because Gebre decided to stop with WCCCh in 1996, after realizing that he was not able to be competitive at max level. The same situation for Shaheen : he can run well if the cross is dry (like Vilamoura in 2000, for example), but cannot be competitive with Bekele in case of mud.

Kenenisa, instead, is the only one having both the attitudes. When he runs on the mud, he uses only the power of his legs, without pushing with his feet. He puts his feet on the mud using full plant, and his action is a mix of pushing and pulling. He runs "seated" a little, and in this way he can always have a good grip.

But, when he's on track or on road, he uses his feet with great reactivity. Under this point of view, he is a very atypical runner.

Another advantage, running cross, comes from his morphology. Kenenisa is not tall, and his legs are not very long. His baricenter is low, and his balance is very good, on the mud too. He is a perfect machine for cross competitions, in my opinion very much better than his brother Tariku, that instead can become better than him on track.

Kenenisa likes to be a front runner, but is very fast. I remember the first time I saw him,in Monaco 2001, when he bettered the World Junior Record of 3000m running 7:30. I was seated together Jos Hermens, and he told me "look that new guy, very young, for me can become the number one in the future". So, I wanted to follow his race, and I was really impressed by his final 300m. He was number 9 with 300m to go. I controlled his final time : he ran incredible 300m, overtaking all the other runners for finishing 2nd, very close the winner, with 37.5 in the last 300m ! So, when during the next years I saw him winning cross and track using tactic of front runner, I simply understood that was so complete, to be practically unbeatable in distance of 10-15 km : able to beat the World Record running alone, and able to win with last lap in 52.0 ! The only limit of Kenenisa, now, is his motivation. Yet young, already with an unbelievable palmarees : 10 World Titles in Cross, 2 World Championships in 10000, 1 Olympic Title in 10000, 1 indoor title in 3000m, World record of 5000, 10000 (2 times) and 5000m indoor. May be very difficult, for him, to maintain the same level of motivation. And, in any case, if there is some chances for Shaheen, Songok, his brother, may be also somebody else, for beating him on track (5000, 10000 are more difficult), absolutely no chance in long cross. He can continue to win, till when he wants to run."

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Actually, Canova describes Bekele's action a little differently than Hudson....but he does agree that Bekele changes his technique depending upon the surface (track vs. muddy XC). Very interesting....

Once again, it's Brad misinterpreting what Canova said.

Canova is saying that Geb and Shaheen forefoot strike and keep their back heel off the ground.

He is saying Bekele is able to do the same AND he is able to midfoot strike or let's the heel come down having a full foot plant.

He's not saying that Bekele heel strikes. It's two completely different things.

There is no such thing as changing your form. It's absolutely ridiculous. How can someone like Salazar be a professional coach and believe that stuff? It's the same as telling sprinters to keep their arms at a 90 degree angle. You get faster by running.

I agree. Too many folks on here are negative & just like to tear down others that they don't even know.

I am sure they would not say these negative things to Brad or Alberto's face.

I have been getting workouts from Brad since last summer and I have been having on of my best XC seasons!

Yes, I agree. I remembered they both stated that Bekele uses a different footplant in XC, but it does seem that Brad either has a different opinion than Renato or that he is misinterpreting Renato's thoughts. I had forgotten the differences until I dug up the old Canova quote.

I was just looking at some footage of Bekele running at World Cross 2008 (muddy), and I do not see the heel strike that Brad speaks of....what I do see is a mid-foot strike with the heel touching the ground....which would support what Renato has stated.

It's probably a speed thing. When KB is running 64 seconds quarters, or faster, he runs on his toes, any slower he's more flat footed. It's not that uncommon.