For those of you who have run around 120miles per week at some period while they've been running:
1. How did you structure your training around your job/study commitments and what was a typical weeks training?
2. What were your pr's?
3. Did you have any stratergies for beating fatigue, soreness and optimizing recovery?
Even if you haven't been consistently up that high any advice would be great.
Thanks!
The best advice: don't do high mileage just for the sake of high mileage. Do it because it is the natural progression in your training.
Thanks for your response, I agree.
There should always be a purpose to our training. With mileage one has to find their own optimal level whatever that may be.
Around 120miles is just a guide. Was looking for advice from anyone with experience at higher mileage.
I've peaked at about 120 miles, so that's my limit. To answer your questions:
1. I would get up at 5am and run before work. Then, another run at bout 5pm after work. I am soon to be married and I have no children. I work 40 hrs/week.
2. No marathons. I train primarily for ultramarathons. I've had two top-2 finishes in 100-milers (including a win).
3. I got really tired during the week. Friday was always a rest day. I'd try to sleep in as much as possible on Saturday and Sunday. I used the TP Quadballer to roll out my calves/soleus muscles often. This seemed to help. General stretching was common. I did core work about 5x/week...I believe this helps maintain proper running form. Endurox after my longer runs helped me. Lots of fruit.
I've been as high as 140 with 4-5 week stretches over 120. PRs: 2:32:45, 1:09:40.
While working 40 hours a week:
10:30: Run 5-10 miles to work
12-8pm: Work
8pm: Run 10-13 miles home.
Promote recovery by sleeping at least 8 hours a day. Take a nap on Sunday after long run. Also, take ice baths at night.
Workouts are problematic. I had mile markers on the way to work so I could always do tempo runs and mile repeats.
Alan
Hey Alan,
Do the ends justify the means?
That's a LOT of miles for 2:32.
Just wondering.
Did 120 weeks while I was a junior and senior in college. Built up gradually from about 80 as a freshman and just upped it about 10 every off season.
Monday: 6 am 12 pm
Tuesday: 6 am 10 pm
Wednesday: 6 am 14 pm
Thursday: 6 am 12 pm
Friday: 6 am 10 pm
Saturday: 22
Sunday: 10
Tried to sleep about 10 hours a night. This completely consumed my life and was at a point that I was willing to go all out for running. At this point in my life I would never consider it. I looked like a concentration camp survivor even though I was eating any and everything.
PR's were 1:50, 3:46, 13:58, 29:04. Nothing great on the Pr's but I improved every year and I felt like it was due to increasing my mileage. I could go and run 15 miles and it wouldn't seem like anything by the end. Make sure to take easy weeks about every 3rd to 4th week and not hammer these out every week.
Was more around the 110 mark regularly, but hope you'll allow my input.
When living very near work, I did an easy 40mins on my lunch break, and the 'proper' run after work.
When living further away (~5miles, yes I know that's close) did easy 40mins into work in the morning, harder/longer run home - would take detour into a grass park for workouts. Found I was always better off doing a hard workout after work, as I'd be a bit spaced in work if I did it before. Never a good morning workout person anyway. Figured I was only spending a little more time training than others were commuting.
I developed great time management, but fatigue was still an issue. Lots of miles+work left me quite tired, and often not quite "on top of my game" mentally.
Never ran a 120-mile week, but, if I had to do it, I would personally structure it like this, plus, easy five-mile am runs every day but Sunday:
M- 10
T- 14
W- 10
R- 14
F- 10
Sa-10
Su-22
If you want to increase your mileage, bump up the "secondary" runs or do that anyway and limit the long run to two hours.
Better yet, just run two hours a day, every day, in whatever combination you feel like doing. As you get fitter, the mileage will naturally increase.
I don't see how you could major in engineering or a hard science on this schedule. So you have to weigh it, because unless you are one of the uber-talented, running isn't going to be how you make your living, and a "liberal arts" degree ain't gonna cut it anymore.
For me, 110 was the upper limit and I got injured anyway averaging much less.
My highest ever, off a regular diet of 100-105 mpw, was 145 miles. That week I did 20-23 miles in singles every morning except Wednesday when I did an easy jog in the morning and then a track 10000 m in the evening in around 33:20.
I planned to go around 120-125 miles that week, but as the days went along I actually started feeling better and progressively less tired the more I ran, so I just maintained the length of the run and even stretched in out a little. Only the last one was a little tiring.
Running 120 miles a week doesnt always give you the results you want. My highest week EVER was 127 miles. I have run a 2:19 marathon, 1:44:05 for 20 miles and 1:07 half-marathon so can speak from some experience. Training is completely individual and there are so many factors that can bring you to a huge improvment. My advice is to really focus on the long run. This is hit and miss, in December of 2007 it truly made the difference in bringing me under 2:20. There are a million different veiwpoints you will get on a site like this from comical, negative and positive but the folks that are deadly serious about improving will tell you that you have to put in a hell of a lot of work and sometimes you can do everything correctly and still not get it right.
Key things from my own experience that make the difference:
1)High mileage should not be the be all-end all. I ran my best races when I was between 95-105 miles per week consistently and ran my worst when I tried to go toward 130.
2)Be yourself! Bill Bowerman said it best, "If someone tells you they ran 100 miles and than asks you how many you ran, don't answer. What difference does it make. The magic is in the man, not the 100 miles". Everyone is different, has different capabilities. Alan mentioned he ran up to 140 miles a week (while working a full time job to boot!) and ran a very respectable 2:32. There are men in this country who will never run that fast, there are others who could run 70 miles per week and hopefully run a strong time like that with that amount.
3)Training and getting the best out of yourself is a mystery. There is no golden rule as to what is the proper training method but there are many coaching methods and all should be considered. There are runners who run huge PR's by running easy on their long runs. There are runners like me, who prefer, and are under a coaching plan, where long runs are the hardest workout on the schedule. I ran my worst marathons when I tried running slower for long runs thinking that might make the difference. Experiment!
4) Experiment and NEVER give up on yourself. Diet, Sleep, Altitude (if your fortunate enough to live at a high altitude location) are all crucial, all play a big part in running a great marathon but just because someone is running high mileage in the 120-50 miles a week may not bring you the same results. I do believe in higher mileage, always have, but how often you run weeks like that and the risks you take in doing it should always be in the back of your mind. There are some runners who have broken 2:10 running 100 mile weeks!
Hope this helps.
Nate
bananatrap wrote:
For those of you who have run around 120miles per week at some period while they've been running:
1. How did you structure your training around your job/study commitments and what was a typical weeks training?
2. What were your pr's?
3. Did you have any stratergies for beating fatigue, soreness and optimizing recovery?
Even if you haven't been consistently up that high any advice would be great.
Thanks!
1. I stay on top of my studying. I got jobs conducive to lots of running (sure as hell didn't work a 9-5)
2. At what point in my training?
3. I only got sore and real tired the first few training cycles over 100. After that, I don't get particularly worn down. The way I structure my mileage (doubles every day), it's all the same after 90mpw. Whether I go 10 or 11 in the morning, or whether I go 4 or 6 in the evening, minor differences. It's all the same. I sleep a lot. I eat a lot. I take ice baths when I can. I stay on top of the strength/injury prevention work.
also unless you're doing the marathon, I don't understand the fascination with 22 mile long runs in this thread. I never went further than about 18 miles or so. It just doesn't make sense when training for 8k xc. Anything over two hours is really hard on my body, and isn't worth the training I'd miss to recover from it.
Yyyyyyyyyyydouyyyy wrote:
Hey Alan,
Do the ends justify the means?
That's a LOT of miles for 2:32.
Just wondering.
Since Alan didn't answer, I will. I'm kind of similar, over 100 mpw during marathon training and a marathon pr of 2:36. Was it worth it?
My goal during those years was to see how fast I could ultimately go. I think I found out, or got pretty close. To find out, I did the hard training. I didn't want to get to 40 years old and wonder how fast I could have been. Or worse, be an annoying older guy saying that I probably could have run such-and-such if I had done the training.
The training didn't put that much stress on the rest of my life. I was single and didn't like my job all that much. I met a lot of great people during that stretch of years, had a lot of really fun times revolving around post-training food and drink and out of town races with friends, and generally enjoyed life. Was it worth it? Sure it was.
bananatrap wrote:
For those of you who have run around 120miles per week at some period while they've been running:
1. How did you structure your training around your job/study commitments and what was a typical weeks training?
2. What were your pr's?
3. Did you have any stratergies for beating fatigue, soreness and optimizing recovery?
Even if you haven't been consistently up that high any advice would be great.
Thanks!
Wake up.
Run.
Work/school.
Run.
Work/school.
Sleep.
I found it much easier to balance school/work/running than many of my friends who did other sports.
My morning run was typically on my own, so that only took about an hour out of the day.
If I had it to do over, I wouldn't have ran as hard during the off-seasons.
when you get to that level. you will hit a barrier. you'll feel tired and ache all the time. Have no illusions, it hurts like hell and a whole different meaning of tired. if you can overcome and thrive. you'll get to 2 hr 10 mins marathon or better.
The topic is "For those who have experience with Higher Mileage (120+) weeks", yet those with little or no experience at those levels are compelled to put in their two cents?
I have a lot of experience at that level. To work around job/study schedules just means you have to be disciplined and not waste any time during the day. If you act like running is as an ordinary part of your day as eating and sleeping, it will become ordinary. If you think you are special because you run a lot then it will never become ordinary.
This was my schedule during my Senior year of college. While i had most of my credits for my degree completed in three years I still had some pesky labs to deal with during this season. All it did was force me to run alone in the dark a couple times a week. Big whup.
Manage your time and you'll be fine.
6/26 31
7/3 0
7/10 49
7/17 76
7/24 56
7/31 38
8/7 36
8/14 72
8/21 73
8/28 78
9/04 52
------------------------------------------------------------------------
9/5-9/11 110 miles
9/5 AM 7 miles easy PM 10 miles moderate
9/6 AM 5 miles easy PM 10 miles moderate
9/7 AM 8 miles easy PM 3 mile warm-up; 6x800 XC @ 2:30 w/2:00 jog; 3 mile warm-down
9/8 AM 5 miles moderate PM 10 miles easy
9/9 AM 7 miles easy PM 3 mile warm-up; 3.5 miles fartlek; 3 mile warm-down
9/10 PM 3.5 mile warm-up; 10x North Choke Lane Hill; 3.5 miles easy
9/11 AM 10 miles easy PM 10 miles easy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
9/12-9/18 116 miles
9/12 AM 15 miles hard PM 5 miles slow
9/13 AM 10 miles easy PM 3 mile warm-up; 10x400 (65) w/200 jog; 3 miles easy
9/14 PM 8 miles moderate
9/15 AM 10 miles slow PM 3 mile warm-up; 8x800 XC (2:10,2:20,2:12,2:28,2:17,2:15,2:13,2:10) w/3:00 jog; 2 mile warm-down
9/16 AM 5 miles moderate PM 8 miles moderate
9/17 AM 10 miles easy PM 10 miles easy
9/18 AM 3 mile warm-up; 5 mile time trial in 25:03; 5 mile warm-down PM 5 miles easy
------------------------------------------------------------------------
9/19-9/25 116 miles
9/19 AM 10 miles easy PM 10 miles easy
9/20 AM 9 miles moderate PM 3 mile warm-up; 12x North Choke Hill; 3 miles slow
9/21 AM 5 miles easy PM 8 miles moderate
9/22 AM 9 miles easy PM 3 mile warm-up; 3 mile XC in 14:43; 4 mile warm-down
9/23 AM 9 miles easy PM 8 miles moderate
9/24 PM 8 miles slow
9/25 AM vs Villanova 3 mile warm-up; 5 mile XC in 24:21.6 (1st); 4 mile warm-down PM 8 miles easy
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
9/26-10/2 130 miles
9/26 PM 11 miles easy
9/27 AM 10 miles easy PM 3 mile warm-up; 12x North Choke Hill; 3 mile warm-down
9/28 AM 10 miles easy PM 11 miles moderate
9/29 AM 11 miles moderate PM 1 mile warm-up; 9.5 mile by-pass loop in 49:00; 1 mile warm-down
9/30 AM 9 miles moderate PM 8 miles moderate
10/1 AM 10 miles easy PM 10 miles easy
10/2 AM vs West Virginia 4 mile warm-up; 5 mile XC in 24:39.2 (1st, course record); 3 mile warm-down PM 5 miles easy
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10/3-10/9 125 miles
10/3 PM 16 miles easy
10/4 AM 9 miles easy PM 3 mile warm-up; 10x400 (63.5) w/200 jog; 3 mile warm-down
10/5 AM 10 miles easy PM 11 miles moderate
10/6 AM 10 miles easy PM 3 mile warm-up; 2 x 1.5 miles XC(7:00,7:06); 3 mile warm-down
10/7 AM 11 miles easy PM 7 miles moderate
10/8 AM 5 miles slow PM vs Kent State 3 mile warm-up; 6 mile XC in 29:01 (1st, course record); 4 mile warm-down
10/9 AM 13 miles easy
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10/10-10/16 145 miles
10/10 AM 10 miles easy PM 10 miles slow
10/11 AM 10 miles easy PM 3.5 mile warm-up; 8x800 XC (2:14,2:17,2:10,2:21,2:13,2:14,2:18,2:07) w/2:00 jog; 3.5 mile warm-down
10/12 AM 11 miles easy PM 11 miles moderate
10/13 AM 10 miles easy PM 3.5 mile warm-up; 4.5 mile fartlek; 3 mile warm-down
10/14 AM 11 miles easy PM 10 miles easy
10/15 AM 10 miles easy PM 10 miles easy
10/16 AM Penn State Open 3 mile warm-up; 5 mile XC in 24:01 (1st); 5 mile warm-down PM 7 miles easy
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10/17-10/23 130 miles
10/17 AM 10 miles easy PM 10 miles easy
10/18 AM 9 miles easy PM 3 mile warm-up; 14x North Choke Hill; 3.5 mile warm-down
10/19 AM 10 miles easy PM 11 miles moderate
10/20 AM 10 miles easy PM 3 mile warm-up; 1 mile 4:34, 4x400(66),800(2:16),400(62); 3 mile warm-down
10/21 AM 10 miles easy PM 8 miles easy
10/22 AM 10 miles easy PM 10 miles easy
10/23 AM vs Georgetown, William & Mary 3 mile warm-up; 5 mile XC in 23:54.7 (1st, course record); 4 miles slow
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10/24-10/30 103 miles
10/24 PM 14 miles easy
10/25 AM 7 miles moderate PM 3 mile warm-up; 15x400 @ 63 w/200 jog(60); 3 mile warm-down
10/26 AM 5 miles moderate PM 10 miles fast
10/27 AM 7 miles easy PM 3 mile warm-up, 3x1.5 mile XC (6:58,7:36,7:55) w/3:00 rest, 3 mile warm-down
10/28 AM 5 miles easy PM 10 miles easy
10/29 AM 5 miles easy PM 5 miles easy
10/30 AM Central Collegiates 4 mile warm-up; 5 mile XC in 24:19 (1st, course record); 5 mile warm-down
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10/31-11/6 131 miles
10/31 AM 10 miles easy PM 10 miles easy
11/1 AM 10 miles easy PM 3 mile warm-up; 10x800 XC (2:14, 2:16, 2:08, 2:22, 2:12, 2:13, 2:16, 2:07, 2:32, 2:15), 3 mile warm-down
11/2 AM 10 miles easy PM 10 miles moderate
11/3 AM 10 miles easy PM 3 mile warm-up; 4 miles fartlek; 3 miles easy
11/4 AM 10 miles easy PM 10 miles easy
11/5 AM vs Pittsburgh 3 mile warm-up; 5 mile XC in 24:03 (1st); 5 mile warm-down
11/6 PM 16 miles easy
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11/7-11/13 130 miles
11/7 AM 1.5 miles easy, 9.5 mile by-pass loop in 53:10 PM 11 miles moderate
11/8 AM 10 miles easy PM 3 mile warm-up; 1 mile(4:28),2x800(2:12,2:15),1 mile(4:37),2x800(2:15,2:12),1 mile(4:53),400(61); 2 mile warm-down
11/9 AM 10 miles easy PM 10 miles easy
11/10 PM 3 mile warm-up; 4x1.5 mile XC (7:07,7:17,7:14,7:24), 2 mile warm-down
11/11 AM 10 miles easy PM 10 miles moderate
11/12 AM 10 miles easy PM 3 mile warm-up; 4 miles fartlek; 3 mile warm-down
11/13 AM 10 miles easy PM 5 miles easy
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11/14-11/20 82 miles
11/14 AM USTFF XC 3 mile warm-up; 10k race in 29:33 (1st, course record); 4 mile warm-down
11/15 PM 11 miles easy FELL and DISLOCATED SHOULDER
11/16 AM 5 miles easy, shoulder bad
11/17 PM 3 mile warm-up; 10x440 (61,61,62,60,60,61,60,61,60,59), 3 miles easy, shoulder bad
11/18 AM 5 miles easy PM 10 miles easy...shoulder
11/19 AM 5 miles easy PM 3 miles easy, 3 miles fartlek, 3 miles easy..shoulder
11/20 AM 5 miles easy PM 9 miles easy shoulder
--------------------------------------------------------------------
11/21-11/27 77 miles
11/21 AM 5 miles easy PM 4 miles easy shoulder
11/22 AM NCAA XC Championship 3 mile warm-up; 10,000m XC in 29:07 (20th); 1 mile warm-down
11/23 PM 15 miles moderate
11/24 AM 9 miles moderate PM 10 miles hard
11/24 PM 12 miles easy
11/25 AM 2 miles easy
11/26 AM AAU XC Championship 3 mile warmup, 10k race in 30:44 (12th), 3 mile warmdown.
Thanks to everyone for the replies. Malmo you have been helpful once again to alot of us as you have at many different times.
It seems 10/10 most days and maybe doing a longer run is a great way to structure a 120 mile week if one is looking to train at that level either consistently or for a stretch of time.
Some people who have responded have also done well on around 5-6 in the morning and 11-13 or so in the afternoon/night with one longer run in the week which is probably a good option aswell.
Regular 60-70min runs or thereabouts seem to be a staple in many distance running training programs particularly for the 10km-marathon or people building a base for shorter track events.
Mark Nenow and Henry Rono are good examples as is malmo's log above.
This is just an observation on what some of the elites do or have done.
I like the idea of not making a big deal about it, just doing it like a regular part of your routine.
bananatrap wrote:
For those of you who have run around 120miles per week at some period while they've been running:
1. How did you structure your training around your job/study commitments and what was a typical weeks training?
2. What were your pr's?
3. Did you have any stratergies for beating fatigue, soreness and optimizing recovery?
Even if you haven't been consistently up that high any advice would be great.
Thanks!
The last 14 weeks my mileage has been like this: 103, 129.5, 138.5, 102, 145.5, 149, 112.5, 123.5, 151.5, 185, 100, 105, 105. Should be back in the 120s this week.
For me it has been about getting some base fitness and weight loss so there has been no quality work in there until the last week or two. I guess now I am trying to do what you are - 120-130mpw with a mixture of paces, long runs, hill reps, track work and so on.
In answer to your questions:
1) I am self-employed so I build the moveable stuff (mostly work) around the less flexible stuff (mostly runs and sometimes work).
What Malmo said about viewing it as oridnary and normal is spot on. It's no big deal, it's just what we do and who we are.
My structure tended to be 15 / 7 as standard each day and I worked around that as best I could.
2) In progress... But regarding what was said to Alan about "was it worth it?", if I get that time (I'm hoping for a little faster) I'd say "yes". But above all else the journey has to be worth it. Sure, we all have a destination in mind, but it is just as important to me that I enjoy every step there. If I do, then even if I don't quite get there, the journey can never be described as a "waste" in any sense.
3) I found that getting my protein over 200g per day helped massively. Sleep as much as you can. Cold/ice baths after key runs. If you can afford an occasional massage, then do. For me it was mostly about keeping the pace slow and increasing it only as the legs allowed. With weight loss (initially) being my #1 goal, the issue was just to get out, run tons of miles and burn fat. The pace was irrelevant. But even now that I am trying to do aerobic and anaerobic threshold workouts, I make sure that the recovery doubles are pitifully easy and that the main runs on non-key workout days are effortless too. Typically I run 2min/mile or more slower than MP for doubles; 1:30/mile slower for easy main runs, although it's gettign a little quicker now. But I NEVER push the legs faster than they want to go on non-workout days - that has been my key to survival.
Pantman, how've you been? It's been ages. We're off to your part of the world on Sunday for a bit of a holiday. Drop me an e-mail if you want.
To the OP, I was never a morning person and almost always had jobs that started early, so I had a Mark Nenow-like schedule with the main run in mod to late afternoon usually 10-15 miles, and a second run later, 9-PM or so, usually 4-7 miles. I did the traditional long Sunday run, 17-22 miles as a rule and either raced on Saturdays if I could find one or would do somthing like 13 AM and 8-9 PM.
I didn't always make it out for those late second runs but when I did I'd usually be in the 140 range or so.
I found that drinking a lot of beer, usually 4-5 sixteen oz cans a day, helped recovery quite a bit as did hot baths.
I also tried to make sure I had a shorter day each week, maybe one where I just did one run of 8-12 miles. It was probably more for a mental break than anything but as time went on I actually enjoyed running that much and did less of that. The most important thing is to find a way to do it that fits your life. Ideally, I'd have liked to do a late morning run and an early evening or late afternoon one but things rarely played out that way.