Kaki not even close 2:13

Please take your meds.

I would like to know How all these kenyans can afford the drugs that they supposed to have taken. EPO doesn't grow on trees and isn't cheap. I like all of these consipiracy people when it comes to people from third world countries having success. Even if its black market still cost money. It would probably cost even more on black market than by perscription if it worked that well.

ventolin^3 wrote:

exactly

any chance of a fast time was dead when the commentator said "50s"

i wasn't expecting anything better than 2'14 when i heard that

to run mid-2'13 in those windy conditions was an outstanding achievement

wabbited thru in about mid-51 & windless day & you coud take a secong off his clocking

Rubbish!

What windy conditions? There was little if any wind at the beginning of the meet when the 1k was run. It only picked up a bit later. The highest reading for the women's TJ, which was going on at the same time, was 0.9m/sec. Wind is no excuse in this race.

Kaki went through 400m in 51.2 (rabbit in 50.74), which is slower than Coe's 2:13.4 (51.0) and only marginally faster than Coe's corresponding time (51.3) in his 2:12.1. It was a lot slower than Ngeny's 50.0.

Simple fact of matter is that the pace was ok (not perfect) at 400m, he just couldn't maintain the pace because he has markedly inferior endurance to Cram, Ngeny and Coe.

His time at 600m was spot on, 1:18.2, but he lost it on the next 200m ( 28.2)

His splits were: - 25.2, 51.2 (26.0), 1:18.2 (27.0), 1:46.4 (28.2) and 27.2.

Pace was fine, conditions were good, he just didn't give the event the respect it deserves and isn't good enough to run 2:12.0.

drivel

the commentator mentioned the windy conditions after the race & nothing about the wind dying down

there was a wind readings of +3.5 in mens lj

i have little faith in your splits as they aren't official

he lost the time beacuse wabbit coudn't keep going between 600 - 800m in the windy conditions & got beat up

no wind & better pacing, there was a second to come off

ventolin^3 wrote:

drivel

the commentator mentioned the windy conditions after the race & nothing about the wind dying down

there was a wind readings of +3.5 in mens lj

i have little faith in your splits as they aren't official

he lost the time beacuse wabbit coudn't keep going between 600 - 800m in the windy conditions & got beat up

no wind & better pacing, there was a second to come off

Don't know what coverage you were watching, but the commentators for the BBC commented on how great the conditions were prior to the 1000m. They commented towards the Mile that the wind had picked up.

The wind reading for the women's 100m, which was on while the LJ was taking part, was only 0.8m/sec.

You say you have little faith in my splits, but you've been quite happy to use them in your threads in recent weeks to extrapolate for your various formulas. Why don't you get your finger and calculator from out your a*se then, tape the races yourself and work them out for yourself!?

"he lost the time beacuse wabbit coudn't keep going between 600 - 800m in the windy conditions & got beat up"

LOL! No, the rabbit kept going fine, going to 800 in 1:45.5, it was Kaki that was unable to go with the pace. He couldn't manage a 27.5 200m section after the bell which would have kept him in contention and given him better drafting. He took 28.2, then increased slightly to 27.2 in the last 200m.

Kaki had fine pace to 800m but didn't or couldn't stay with the rabbit. Nothing to do with wind. I've watched the race several times and there are no swaying flags, blowing hair, nothing. He just didn't have it.

The bottom line is this good man who posted last is right, the splits were good enough Kaki could not handle them.

You have to be at 1:44.x with 27.0 slightly fading close like most 800's are run to get this mark, you need to be stronger more so or as much as fast.

51.x/53.x 27.0 gets you there

you would have to be blazing in off 1:45 which Is why I knew this was ill fated as KD would have to go at or under 1:45.00 to rabitt this one.

Skate wrote:

23.8- 49.3- 1:14.6- 1:41.11 Did Kipketer ever attempt a 1K?

2:14.96i WR Birmingham, GBR 2/20/2000

nightline wrote:

Skate wrote:

23.8- 49.3- 1:14.6- 1:41.11 Did Kipketer ever attempt a 1K?

2:14.96i WR Birmingham, GBR 2/20/2000

Outdoor pb only 2:16.29. He didn't have the endurance to maintain his form beyond 800m. With a few attempts he should have got down to the sort of time Kaki ran, but I'd say Kaki's 1500 potential is better than Kipketer's was. Don't expect Rudisha to attempt a 1000 WR either. Hasn't got the endurance capacity.

moron

what part of INDOOR 1K WR doesn't your peabrain comprehend ???

Is it me or did it look like KD could have placed in that race? That was the smoothest 1:45 800 I've ever watched him run.

ventolin^3 wrote:

moron

what part of INDOOR 1K WR doesn't your peabrain comprehend ???

Are you an utter knob?

I know he put indoor, idiot. Why should my quoting his OUTDOOR pb imply I don't know what his indoor pb is. I was making a completely different point. Do you need everything explained in one syllable words in triplicate?

2:14.9 indoors doesn't warrant any evidence that he was any better than 2:13 flat outdoors. Neither does a 3:42 1500pb. No evidence that he could extend his 1:41 800 endurance beyond that point. You can opine that you think he was capable of faster, but there's not much evidence you can number crunch with in your predictor to back this up as probable

moron

there are outdoor 1500 guys like morceli/kaki/kennedy/baala all behind him in the indoor list - all have run 2'13 outdoors

does your numbskull think kip coudn't run 2'12 outdoor that day ???

Sorry deanouk, but for once I agree with vento. I mean really, is the WR not good enough for you? Compare it to the indoor AR if you need evidence of its quality.

The reason you didn't see Kip do better at 1000 is the same reason we don't currently have a 1:39 on the books...he caught malaria in '98. And at his peak, the meet promoters and the track world wanted to see someone challenge Coe's 1:41.7.

Look at it this way: in '00 he was a 1:43 outdoor runner who did 2:14 indoors. In '97 he was capable of lowering the 1000m WR significantly.

joel wrote:

Sorry deanouk, but for once I agree with vento. I mean really, is the WR not good enough for you? Compare it to the indoor AR if you need evidence of its quality.

The reason you didn't see Kip do better at 1000 is the same reason we don't currently have a 1:39 on the books...he caught malaria in '98. And at his peak, the meet promoters and the track world wanted to see someone challenge Coe's 1:41.7.

Look at it this way: in '00 he was a 1:43 outdoor runner who did 2:14 indoors. In '97 he was capable of lowering the 1000m WR significantly.

Utter nonsense. Kipketer barely run half a second faster at 800m after seasons attempting to down Coe's record. Coe's 1:41.7 would have been 1:41.5 if he hadn't had to run wide on the curve to pass the fading rabbit. Kip had a pacemaker to 550m in his 1:41.1, so had drafting for longer.

So he was at most 0.5 faster at 800m and probably about 7 secs slower than Coe at 1500m. Coe was in at least 3:28 form in 81, Kip's pb was 3:42, though he could perhaps run a 3:35 in 97 in the right race, which is being generous.

Kipketer had 1 season with supposed malaria, he had about 7 other seasons at the top of the 800m rankings. He'd already broken Coe's 800 record in Zurich 97, so had several opportunities to attack the 1k after that. The suggestion he ran out of opportunity due to malaria is rubbish. Just as the suggestion he could run 1:39 is nonsense. He had many, many paced afforts, with various permeatations in pace, yet could do no better than 1:41.1

2:14.9 is 3 secs slower than the 1000m WR, thats about 25m. That's a huge gap. If Kipketer thought he could come close he would have attempted it. He broke the indoor WR because it was a weak one.

In the last analysis Kip's endurance wasn't good enough.

It was far short of Coe's, Cram's, Morceli's, Ngeny's etc.

moron

doesn't matter if he had 10 seasons chasing the wr, his peak year was '97 & he was never better before or after - that was the year to make his 800 mark

can your peabrain not comprehend this ???

back to coe's running wide drivel

moron, does your brain keep forgetting kip's 1'41.2 off a suicidal 48.3 ???

that wouda been mid-1'40 off a low/mid-49, so we have gap between them upto ~1s or close to 8m

moron

do you have any clue about malaria ???

it can be a recurrent illness with frequent attacks thruout the years & likely re-infection also in returning to africa to train

clearly you have no clue about the illness

he has said he got malaria again in '00 which helps explain his insipid display in sydney where at his peak he couda blown that field away with a solo 1'42 like indoor in '97

why did he need it as he was a 800 guy ???

sure he couda upped his endurance work & maybe got close to 3'30, but then he likely wouda sacrificed 800 speed & may have drifted out from 1'41s to 1'42/1'43

1'42/1'43/3'30 wouda been no man's land in that era

deanouk, Kipketer had two WR-chasing seasons: '96 and '97. After malaria in '98, his body was never the same and he was chasing the missing Oly gold instead.

Again during those peak years, the track world, meet promoters, and Kipketer wanted Coe's 800m record. The 1000m wasn't important then, just as it's of marginal importance now.

Kip was ultimately able to build himself back into a 1:42, WC-winning runner, though sadly no Olympic gold. But something was missing. It's those seasons of lost time and not having the same body that have denied fans a sub-1:41 and possible 1:40 clocking, as well as more serious attempts at the 1000m mark.

That he got the indoor 1k mark in '00 is a testament to his resolve to return to top form. I would agree that Kipketer, Kaki, and Rudisha are very similar athletes in that they are 800m specialists, and struggle with mile endurance. El G, Morceli, Cram, and Ngeny are on the other side of the fence. They could all meet competitively at 1000m. Coe lived in both worlds, and having done it 30 years ago continues to make him the greatest mid-d'er of all time.

ventolin^3 wrote:

moron

what part of INDOOR 1K WR doesn't your peabrain comprehend ???

Never talk like that in front of white men, Eldrick!

I agree with most of this, but would like to add 2 points.

1) I think too much stock is given to indoor times. Different athletes have different agendas for indoor running. 30 years ago it was a mild diversion to break up the winter months. In the last 15 years it has been a much bigger scene, with regular European and World indoor Champs. There was an incentive for the likes of Kip to be in great shape and with a mini-peak sometime in Feb/March. I still think there is a huge gulf between 2:14.9 & 2:12.0. The former time run indoors is not a great pointer to being able to run 3 secs faster later. Cruz had a much better 1500 pb than Kip, yet wasn't able to get within 2 secs of the then WR when in 1:41 shape.

2) I'd argue that while malaria might have prevented Kip running faster in 98, the same can be said of Coe's illnesses of 82 & 83. It's now believed he had toxoplasmosis in his system for both those seasons, yet still managed to run 1:43 when clearly below par. This too was a debilitating illness that can stay in the system for many years. He was never quite the same again after those 2 seasons were decimated. I'd say he'd have run close to 1:41.0 had he chased his own record in 81, but there was no incentive to do so. It's not unreasonable to presume he could have bettered this during the next 2 seasons given full health.

Coe was a doper. Of that I am sure.