My Fiance Wants me to Sign a Prenuptial

Dan T wrote:

I am tempted to write in my own sub parts to it where by she is required to have relations with me no less than twice a week throughout our marriage.

Clauses discussing sex (or weight gain) are only going to piss off the judge. Not worth it.

Is the your prenup concern caused because you would like to be entitled to her family's money if you divorce?

Don't do it. I have a friend who is a divorce lawyer and what he sees in your situation is that you are married for 20 years and gather no assets based on her "old money" lifestyle (as you would have done if you would have married Miss Middle Class.)

After the divorce -- you have nothing -- and no leverage. Tell her and her dad to F-off.

Marriage is just a property contract anyway. It just comes w/ a prescribed standard form. All the prenup does is change the prescribed standard form to an individualized one.

If you can live w/ the terms of the contract than do that, if you can't, then don't.

I was dating a gal with no assets. Her income was low and she spent everything she made. We lived together 5 years. I could not marry her because 1) I didn't trust her to save instead of spend and 2) I did not think the marriage would last due to money issues. For example, if I want a new car, is it my money or our money? But if she wants a new car, then I'm a cheap jerk for not buying it for her.

If she has money and you are a broke teacher, I don't know how it will work. At some point, is she going to belittle you for your lack of income? What does the prenup say? Does she keep everything she brings into the marriage? Does it phase out over time? Are you going to share finances or are you relying on her to pay the mortage and all the bills?

justdoitalready wrote:

I'm surprised nobody has told you to have a lawyer look over it, just to make sure that you're not getting screwed. She's from old money and has a family history of divorce, so I would expect a prenup if I were in your shoes, mostly for the piece of mind for her family. She's just being realistic and careful. If that's not the type of woman you want to marry, move on. Remember, you buy car insurance so that you're not screwed if you get into a car accident, you may never get into an accident, but the insurance is still there.

This is the best advice. TO add: talk to her about drawing up wills as well. This way, you can gauge how she would distribute her wealth and if she'd want that distribution to benefit you.

You can bring up the twice a week sex clause as a joke, but don't expect it to be taken seriously.

just sayin wrote:

Your level of empathy and consideration for her experiences and perspective on the issue might be just a little less than optimal for building a marital relationship, which doesn't necessarily always occur immediately upon saying the words "I do."

They were not her experiences, they were bad choices made by an immature brother. I don't really feel like doing time for crimes I did not commit. The idea of frequency of relations is just my way of showing her that marital contractual stipulations are ridiculous.

frozen north wrote:

I'm female and would refuse a prenup if I were this guy. Seems like she thinks that he benefits more from marriage than she does. And that she thinks little of his money making/money managing skills. And if it's true that he benefits more from the marriage than maybe she deserves someone better.

If she doesn't think you are worth risking it all, then she's not worth the trouble.

I agree with this.

If you do agree to a prenup, go over it very carefully, including with advisors, such as here on letsrun.

And definitely phase it out over time.

If someone other than you is selected to gain any assets from the marriage, than that is a reason for you to find someone else.

It sounds to me that the spouse to be values money above anything else, which is a huge red flag.

Personally I don't care about money at all. It seems to be a necessary evil for living in the corporate society, but I prefer dropping out of that society and living my own life. Anyone who doesn't understand that can bugger off and find someone else.

I think the prenup is OK but get yourself a lawyer and add your own stuff. (Forget the sex stuff. Do you really want to force someone to have sex with you?) Just because you're a teacher doesn't mean she can't rake you over the coals one day with child support, supervised visitation with your kids, etc. Think ahead. If she doesn't like your stuff, then I'd say you guys probably weren't meant to be together in the first place. It's lucky you found out now.

Depends on the state but in my state anything brought into the marriage is already considered separate property. Gets messy if those assets are co-mingled but if, for instance, she has a trust or a huge chunk in a separate account, she keeps that anyway. A lawyer could advise you of the law in your state.

She? Fiancee

Dan T wrote:

[quote]just sayin wrote:

They were not her experiences, they were bad choices made by an immature brother. I don't really feel like doing time for crimes I did not commit. The idea of frequency of relations is just my way of showing her that marital contractual stipulations are ridiculous.

It doesn't matter whose experiences they were. She has been warned that if it doesn't work out, she could stand to lose a lot of money. What are you at risk to lose?

You'd better wake up now about the contract of marriage. The fact that she wants to change the outcome of the standard marriage contract does not make her a bad person. She is simply looking out for herself in case it doesn't work out. You don't have to sign it. Obviously, you are offended by the notion of a prenup. You had better think long and hard because it sounds like this is a deal breaker for you. And maybe for her as well.

X-Runner wrote: Is the your prenup concern caused because you would like to be entitled to her family's money if you divorce?

To me, this is the key point. Why are you upset about the idea of a pre-nup, unless it's because you're looking forward to getting your hands on all that cash?

If a family has money (and especially if one member of that family has already been burned in divorces), then there's pressure to have a pre-nup. It doesn't mean your fiancee thinks you're untrustworthy, it just means that, WHOEVER she marries, she is expected by her family not to jeopardize their ability to pass their wealth on to future generations.

From your point of view, do you really want to start your marriage bitter about the fact that, if you split, you don't get to raid your wife's family's piggy bank? My perspective (having been married earlier this year) is:

(a) My marriage is forever, so it doesn't really matter what the post-divorce provisions are; but

(b) If something does happen to the marriage for whatever reason, I have no desire to profit from the failure. I can and will support myself, even though my wife's family has way more money than I or my family do.

Having said all that, the advice to get a lawyer to look it over is ESSENTIAL. You don't want to gold-dig, but neither do you want to get screwed if things go wrong.

Prenups get a lot of bad press. You can't write a prenup where the other spouse gets nothing (well you can but they are not valid). You can write crap like sex x times a week and she can't gain more than x pounds but they really aren't enforceable. As a practical matter figure out her concerns (her parents don't want you to inherit her money or their business and want to keep some family heirlooms in their hands) and work it out something. And it isn't like if you get married without a prenup that you are going to get half of her wealth when you dump her in 6 months so you probably are not signing away as much as you thinkOf course there is only one proper response. You should provide here with your marriage contract to sign. http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0217062contract1.html would be a reasonable document.

Fat Boy wrote:

I think the prenup is OK but get yourself a lawyer and add your own stuff. (Forget the sex stuff. Do you really want to force someone to have sex with you?) Just because you're a teacher doesn't mean she can't rake you over the coals one day with child support, supervised visitation with your kids, etc. Think ahead. If she doesn't like your stuff, then I'd say you guys probably weren't meant to be together in the first place. It's lucky you found out now.

That lack of trust is a bad start and it indicates to me that it's not going to work out even if you did come to agreement on a pre-nup. I would just eff her for kicks until you can find a nice girl you can trust like the big bubblicious jiggly booty Stephanie Hightower, President of USATF.

It is her families money and you are marrying into it which means you are not entitled to any of it...ever. (by that I mean ethically not legally)

I find it appalling when a someone marries for money.

Earn your own money.

By not signing you are saying that by being married for X amount of time you gain the right to X% of what she gets from her trust fund or inheritance. Ask yourself why you deserve any of it?

My advice is to get real legal advice.

If she has as much money as you say then what you need to do is learn personal finance and if you want to buy something don't ask her for the money, get it from your own paycheck.

Save "YOUR" money and learn to invest...if you don't have to spend a lot of your income then you should be able to build up wealth quickly and make sure it is stipulated that you keep what wealth you build up from your income. That way if something happens to the marriage you still have something.

Dude your poor she is rich...she wants to marry you for you!

But people with money are scared of being taken advantage of look at it from her perspective! This ain't fairy tale BS forever crap 50% of marriages will fail...just sign and give her the reassurance that you are not a gold digger.

The main problem with the prenup is that it implies that things might just take a turn for the worst, and she's protected to take all her marbles and go find someone else... with all these marbles she might just take everything you have out of spite... it presupposes that if things start going badly she'll just back out, instead of working at it.

Basically it implies this insurance mentality, which in and of itself presupposes that 'for better for worse' is just a load of .... And implies she's gonna do what she damn well pleases, it removes a lot of the authority and power of each partner in the relationship, and instead gives her a strong arm when ever things hit a big rock. Basically she's putting you in a closet right next her close that she can put on take off and throw out. That is not a marriage by my standards.

She could be the one for you and real nice and all that but if assets are that important to her, then you can't be as important as you should as a husband, she going always be completely independent, which if that's what you're into then why get married? Not to say that independence is a horrible thing, but complete independence isnt really marriage.

Maybe her parents should make a trust or something by which there assets go only to their heirs... etc. Thus no need for a prenup.

Thanks for all the good responses.

They add a lot of great perspective to the issue.

If either of you believe break-up is at all POSSIBLE, then don't marry.