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    • Proof is in the Pudding
      • Two 12:51's in Doha! Think there might be a new PED out there? 5/14/2010 4:40PM
      • Proof is in the Pudding
      • Sergio Sanchez, Ritz, Solinski, and now two 12:51's in May in close to 100 degree weather! Sounds like the EPO era all over again. And yes, OUR BELOVED AMERICANS ARE PART IT this time. I called it on the Solinski thread the day after his AR: Do not be surprised if there is an anslaught of fast times by European and African runners. Discuss.
    • who when what?
      • RE: Two 12:51's in Doha! Think there might be a new PED out there? 5/14/2010 5:05PM - in reply to and this
      • who when what?
      • and this wrote:
        no olympics, not world championships, fast times, hmmmm i wonder why?
        And don't forget laxed testing.
    • and this
      • RE: Two 12:51's in Doha! Think there might be a new PED out there? 5/14/2010 5:08PM - in reply to who when what?
      • and this
      • who when what? wrote:
        and this wrote:
        no olympics, not world championships, fast times, hmmmm i wonder why?
        And don't forget laxed testing.
        yes, because the testers in the u.s. & europe get to take a summer break.
    • who when what?
      • RE: Two 12:51's in Doha! Think there might be a new PED out there? 5/14/2010 5:15PM - in reply to and this
      • who when what?
      • Ever heard of Olympic style testing? Why do you think there are way more positives on an Olympic year than on a non-Olympic year? The test administered to medal winning athletes cost the IOC about $980 per test. Think Payton Jordan can afford that?
    • Thamesvalleyharrier
      • RE: Two 12:51's in Doha! Think there might be a new PED out there? 5/14/2010 5:35PM - in reply to Proof is in the Pudding
      • Thamesvalleyharrier
      • Your opinion would hold more weight with me if it were expressed eloquently.

        But, on the topic, I am willing to say innoncent until proven guilty. The diamond league can more than afford testing. Athletics is not a very fun sport to watch if you constantly think that athletes are cheating.
    • slight of hand
      • RE: Two 12:51's in Doha! Think there might be a new PED out there? 5/14/2010 5:56PM - in reply to who when what?
      • slight of hand
      • who when what? wrote:
        Ever heard of Olympic style testing? Why do you think there are way more positives on an Olympic year than on a non-Olympic year?
        I don't know, someone once told me that people like to win olympic medals. If that is true than maybe they want one of those rather than a diamond league ribbon.

        I've also heard a little bird say that an olympic medal might have some monetary incentives associated as well.

        Not really sure though.

        Look, I'm not saying these guys are clean, just saying it's funny if you think the reason for faster times in a non olympic and non world championship year is because they wait 4 years to hit the juice and then take a 3 year time out.
    • Proof is in the Pudding
      • RE: Two 12:51's in Doha! Think there might be a new PED out there? 5/14/2010 6:22PM - in reply to Thamesvalleyharrier
      • Proof is in the Pudding
      • Eloquence is a manner of speaking, not spelling. Please do not ever say somebody spells eloquently, or even writes eloquently. You will come across as a fool, and an opinionated fellow like yourself would probably want to avoid that.

        But, on topic, I still love and very much enjoy athletics. As a matter of fact my direct involvement in high level athletics is what leads me to believe that most top level guys are or have been on something. This does not faze me, since for the most part it is still a level playing field. The beauty of global information pathways is that new "training" becomes available across borders. But what does stick in my crawl is the way most letsrunners widely aknowledge that drugs are out there, that certain runners runners with perfectly spotless records are using them, yet cling to the belief that white Americans don't. The exact same patterns of performance that are the sole basis for suspicion of foreign athletes do not apply if you are white and speak English. The main reason for this exclusion? Simple, Americans and people with similar culture are just too moral to cheat. The rest of the world, cheaters. It is a notion that is as naive as your use of the word "eloquently".
    • deanouk
      • RE: Two 12:51's in Doha! Think there might be a new PED out there? 5/14/2010 6:58PM - in reply to Proof is in the Pudding
      • deanouk
      • Proof is in the Pudding wrote:
        Sergio Sanchez, Ritz, Solinski, and now two 12:51's in May in close to 100 degree weather! Sounds like the EPO era all over again. And yes, OUR BELOVED AMERICANS ARE PART IT this time. I called it on the Solinski thread the day after his AR: Do not be surprised if there is an anslaught of fast times by European and African runners. Discuss.
        I've just left a message on T&FN message board alluding to the same sort of thing, with regards to the Doha meet anyway. Maybe they can run here with a guarantee no one will get tested!?

        "Doha seems a very interesting meet to me. I mean its extremely early in the season yet produces these amazing times in the middle and long distance events! The same thing happened last year, with Kaki (1:43.09), Kiprop (1:43.17) & Al-Salhi (1:43.66) all producing season's bests that were not improved upon when things mattered in July & August. In the case of Kiprop & Al-Salhi, they never ran within a second of those May times for the rest of the season.
        It was a similar story in the 1500 & 3000m: -

        Choge & Keitany both running 3:30 and bits; though both improved by about a second a month later in Berlin.

        In the 3000m, Kipchoge (7:28.37), Longosiwa (7:30.09) & Shaheen (7:32.46), Komen (7:32.39) & Kiptoo (7:32.97) all ran season's bests there as well. Why were so many able to run such incredible times in early May, yet fail to capitalise or improve on these during the rest of the season?"
    • keepitup
    • Ryan Foreman
      • RE: Two 12:51's in Doha! Think there might be a new PED out there? 5/14/2010 7:20PM - in reply to
      • Ryan Foreman
      • Powell won the 100M. Apparently that is all we are supposed to care about.

        The Stache wrote:
        To hell with all this arguing over eloquence. Where's the goddam results link?!
    • trollism
      • RE: Two 12:51's in Doha! Think there might be a new PED out there? 5/14/2010 8:13PM - in reply to Ryan Foreman
      • trollism
      • European and African?

        You don't think Salazar and Cook haven'y got themselves a batch?

        One thing is for sure, the European guys will get caught and the world will think that the testing system is catching all the cheats.
    • Proof is in the Pudding
      • RE: Two 12:51's in Doha! Think there might be a new PED out there? 5/14/2010 10:29PM - in reply to trollism
      • Proof is in the Pudding
      • Not sure why my prediction was erased, but here it is again:

        Be ready for jaw dropping performances by Africans and White Europeans this summer. YHIHF.
    • sbeefyk1
      • RE: Two 12:51's in Doha! Think there might be a new PED out there? 5/15/2010 12:41AM - in reply to Proof is in the Pudding
      • sbeefyk1
      • One thing I heard last Summer is that during non-Olympic and non-World Championship years you are able to train for total fitness which leads to fast times. Rather than while training to win a championship you want focus a little more on finishing speed rather than overall fitness.

        Sure one could say that overall fitness would lead to finishing speed, but if that were true than 10000 meter runners would be the best 800/1500 meter runners, since in my mind 10000 meters requires a bit more fitness than 1500 meters.

        I just like to believe that the majority of the best track athletes are clean, and until world records start getting smashed, then there is no reason to start throwing out the cheating card. Sure its early, but for all we know some people may have hit there peak before the real season starts...
    • Ryan Foreman
      • RE: Two 12:51's in Doha! Think there might be a new PED out there? 5/15/2010 1:14AM - in reply to Proof is in the Pudding
      • Ryan Foreman
      • Who is to say in a non Olympic and WC year when these athletes are supposed to peak? Usually it would be in August or September. But as far as I can see there are just a bunch of races spread out all through the coming 4 or 5 months.

        Solinsky has candidly said that July 3rd is when he we wants to peak which is pretty damn early. Which basically means that you want to be at peak fitness level a couple months before so you have a base on which to focus on speed leading up to the biggest race of the year.

        Also, Kipchoge is a proven great even by East African standards. 12:51 is very good but it doesn't stike me as a time that should make me question how it could possibly be that good.
    • yyy
      • RE: Two 12:51's in Doha! Think there might be a new PED out there? 5/15/2010 2:18AM - in reply to Proof is in the Pudding
      • yyy
      • everything points at something fishy indeed. Eiher a new PED or a short track. I am leaning towards the former. It is about
        a decade since the last wave of insane times. The chemists
        must have been able to come up with something new by now.
    • Proof is in the Pudding
      • RE: Two 12:51's in Doha! Think there might be a new PED out there? 5/15/2010 2:59AM - in reply to tomsowell
      • Proof is in the Pudding
      • tomsowell wrote:
        well...we've already had one draw jopping performance by an american...how do you feel about that?
        How did you feel about it? This is only the beginning. Here is how it will play out:

        1) Americans have already started to rewrite their distance record books.
        2) Europeans will rewrite their distance record books this summer.
        3) Letsrun community will call it a great time for track and field.
        4) As soon as one of those Europeans is of northern african descent, everybody will be crying foul.