Can somebody please show me a reputable poll that shows how Americans feel about healthcare?

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14 years ago 03/22/2010 10:06pm EDT

re: Krayzelburg

Seems we are reading different history books. FDR and the New Deal rebuilt this country after the banks ransacked it in 1929--granted a world war economy helped too.As an institution, the presidency is not either to be preserved as a holy of holies or anything else. It is an office created for the exercise of executive power to move the ship of state in the service of the people--not corporations, but the people. That's what presidential leadership is about and every presidential historian will concur, not to mention, the rank FDR with Lincoln and Washington as the all time greats.Keynes was vindicated so it's surprising to hear talk of a prolonged Great Depression. Maybe you're being sarcastic. But for the sake of the less historically educated it's best to put out some real history lest they be misinformed.You might be interested to know that the Millenials (born after 1990) do not share the fear of government that many born before Generation X do. In fact, they expect government to serve. So hopefully the boogiemandering/fearmongering and scapegoating will become archaic soon enough.And regarding common sense: is it common sense to let people die for a profit. This is not a question of common sense: it's a question of ethics. Spend less on propping up our banks too large to fail or spend less on wars and divert that money to health care, education and domestic infrastructure. Sounds like a winner to me.

Krayzelburg wrote:
My friend, history has taught us of the long-term destruction that the presidency of FDR hath wrought. We should know better, by now, than to go down this road again.
FDR and his awful social engineering projects prolonged the Great Depression and began an ever-steepening slippery slope toward a government that is out of control in its immensity and encroachment where it doesn't belong.
Obama, in turn, is steepening the slope even further with his radical leftist agenda. I shudder to think what our country will be like in 20 years. I think most people in the country, even if not very politically savvy, recognize an agenda that is radical, ill-conceived and out of sync with basic common sense.
The elections will tell the tale. I need rant and rave no further.

14 years ago 03/22/2010 11:25pm EDT

re: I Love My Pitchfork

I Love My Pitchfork wrote:
Seems we are reading different history books. FDR and the New Deal rebuilt this country after the banks ransacked it in 1929--granted a world war economy helped too.
As an institution, the presidency is not either to be preserved as a holy of holies or anything else. It is an office created for the exercise of executive power to move the ship of state in the service of the people--not corporations, but the people. That's what presidential leadership is about and every presidential historian will concur, not to mention, the rank FDR with Lincoln and Washington as the all time greats.
Keynes was vindicated so it's surprising to hear talk of a prolonged Great Depression. Maybe you're being sarcastic. But for the sake of the less historically educated it's best to put out some real history lest they be misinformed.
You might be interested to know that the Millenials (born after 1990) do not share the fear of government that many born before Generation X do. In fact, they expect government to serve. So hopefully the boogiemandering/fearmongering and scapegoating will become archaic soon enough.
And regarding common sense: is it common sense to let people die for a profit. This is not a question of common sense: it's a question of ethics. Spend less on propping up our banks too large to fail or spend less on wars and divert that money to health care, education and domestic infrastructure. Sounds like a winner to me.
Krayzelburg wrote:
My friend, history has taught us of the long-term destruction that the presidency of FDR hath wrought. We should know better, by now, than to go down this road again.
FDR and his awful social engineering projects prolonged the Great Depression and began an ever-steepening slippery slope toward a government that is out of control in its immensity and encroachment where it doesn't belong.
Obama, in turn, is steepening the slope even further with his radical leftist agenda. I shudder to think what our country will be like in 20 years. I think most people in the country, even if not very politically savvy, recognize an agenda that is radical, ill-conceived and out of sync with basic common sense.
The elections will tell the tale. I need rant and rave no further.

Pitchfork: 0

Krayzelburg: 1

14 years ago 03/23/2010 12:02am EDT

re: Martin van Buren

Nice rebuttal MvB. Are of speaking of Cole and Ohanian? Do you also believe wages were artificially depressed? What of Keynes and an injection multiplier? Oh well, looks like I've been undone by inscrutability. Or maybe by just...more talking points.

Martin van Buren wrote:
I Love My Pitchfork wrote:
Seems we are reading different history books. FDR and the New Deal rebuilt this country after the banks ransacked it in 1929--granted a world war economy helped too.
As an institution, the presidency is not either to be preserved as a holy of holies or anything else. It is an office created for the exercise of executive power to move the ship of state in the service of the people--not corporations, but the people. That's what presidential leadership is about and every presidential historian will concur, not to mention, the rank FDR with Lincoln and Washington as the all time greats.
Keynes was vindicated so it's surprising to hear talk of a prolonged Great Depression. Maybe you're being sarcastic. But for the sake of the less historically educated it's best to put out some real history lest they be misinformed.
You might be interested to know that the Millenials (born after 1990) do not share the fear of government that many born before Generation X do. In fact, they expect government to serve. So hopefully the boogiemandering/fearmongering and scapegoating will become archaic soon enough.
And regarding common sense: is it common sense to let people die for a profit. This is not a question of common sense: it's a question of ethics. Spend less on propping up our banks too large to fail or spend less on wars and divert that money to health care, education and domestic infrastructure. Sounds like a winner to me.
Pitchfork: 0
Krayzelburg: 1

14 years ago 03/23/2010 4:49am EDT

re: Krayzelburg

Krayzelburg wrote:Obama, in turn, is steepening the slope even further with his radical leftist agenda. I shudder to think what our country will be like in 20 years. I think most people in the country, even if not very politically savvy, recognize an agenda that is radical, ill-conceived and out of sync with basic common sense.
The elections will tell the tale. I need rant and rave no further.

You shudder to think about what the country will be like in twenty years, but you expect the it to be ruled by your party again after the next elections because the majority agrees with you about the radical leftism that plagues the country?

Your anger has you so contorted that you don't know whether to cheer for your team or cry uncle.

14 years ago 03/23/2010 6:54am EDT

re: Krayzelburg

Krayzelburg wrote:
Obama, in turn, is steepening the slope even further with his radical leftist agenda. I shudder to think what our country will be like in 20 years. I think most people in the country, even if not very politically savvy, recognize an agenda that is radical, ill-conceived and out of sync with basic common sense.
The elections will tell the tale. I need rant and rave no further.

I am certainly capable of recognizing a radical leftist agenda. But I don't see one at the moment. Obama is clearly much more moderate than I think most people thought when he was elected. As for 2012, this historic health care legislation could provide the boost the Dems and Obama need. I don't think he's going anywhere soon.

14 years ago 03/23/2010 7:55am EDT

re: Not the BCS

IYes, i was 219-212. It may have been different had Obama and Pelosi not had to drop to their knees and take it in the jaw at the last minute. Mind you, they had to take it in the jaw for MEMBERS OF THEIR OWN PARTY!!

Author: Not the BCS

Subject: RE: Can somebody please show me a reputable poll that shows how Americans feel about healthcare?

Message:

The vote was 219-212, the real deal. No bogus polls subject to interpretation. Congress is not the BCS. Not a beauty padgeant.

14 years ago 03/23/2010 10:27am EDT

re: ac09

ac09 wrote:
It should also be noted that some polls show the majority favors many of the individual elements the bill that just passed. Yet, as previously stated, there seems to be strong opposition for the bill as a whole. To me, this says that most people don't know what is in the bill, don't understand how congress works, or have bought the propaganda of the right-wing opposition.
For example, I'm sure that there are people who would say they are in favor of many of the measures in the bill, but the Dems shouldn't force the bill through using parliamentary procedures and back-room deals. Unfortunately, this is often how congress works; if they pass it within the rules, then opposing the process seems rather silly. Others might be concerned about the possibility that the bill increases costs and the national debt. Obviously, the Dems are claiming it will lower costs while the GOP says it will raise them. So it depends on who you believe right now, but more importantly it won't be known for a while what the real consequences are.
As someone generally in favor of reform, I'd like to believe that more people would support this bill if there was more information and rationality in our politics and our news media. I don't know a lot about this current bill but I agree with the person who said that you have to pass what you can and modify it later since an opportunity like this comes around only once in a great while. Let's hope it does what the President says and really changes the way health care in our country operates.

Thanks. Great comments!

14 years ago 03/23/2010 10:34am EDT

re: v8v8v8

v8v8v8 wrote:
IYes, i was 219-212. It may have been different had Obama and Pelosi not had to drop to their knees and take it in the jaw at the last minute. Mind you, they had to take it in the jaw for MEMBERS OF THEIR OWN PARTY!!

More silly nonsense. One second the right says Obama and Pelosi practice thug/chicago style politics to force their party members into voting their way, and the next they say that they don't force anyone to do anything, they just buy them off with favors. Which is it??

If it is the former (forcing/coercing members to vote a certain way), then tell me why the right wasn't critical of Tom THE HAMMER Delay ??? Why the HELL do you think he was called "the HAMMER" ?? BECAUSE......he used strong-arm tactics to force repub members into voting for his and Bush's agenda. You were fine with that, but now that the Dems do something even a little similar, it is outrageous and horrible??

Please.

14 years ago 03/23/2010 10:41am EDT

re: i kinda like running

i kinda like running wrote:
Thank you for that. I was thinking the same thing when Carnivore wrote that we don't worship the dollar enough. It's true that our worship of the dollar initially led to innovation and a high standard of living (for some), but it has turned very, very ugly. And it will get uglier.

You are all about to find out what happens to a society that doesn't respect the dollar. You will soon live in a world in which NOBODY accepts dollars at all! Just remember, when the almighty dollar is destroyed, it's exactly what you wanted.

14 years ago 03/23/2010 11:17am EDT

re: Krayzelburg

Krazy u make his point for him by speaking in the same old tried GOP terms.

Mid-term elections blah blah blah. Next mid-term we swing back the other way and as a whole the country suffers but hey you can get back on here in the fall and say you were right about the mid-term elections of 2010!!

14 years ago 03/23/2010 12:00pm EDT

re: goomb

goomb wrote:
Thats a separate issue, in this case. Most people feel that we should do something to remedy the health care system, but a majority of the polled public disagrees with the plan that was passed.

Unfortunatly, it appears that most people don't know what's in the current bill. They actually agree with most of the provisions when asked about them.

Consider the case of foreign aid. A large majority of Americans think that it should be cut, but the general belief is that foreign aid makes up about 20% of the US budget and that 5-10% would be a more reasonable number. It's actually around 1%. Does this mean that most Americans think foreign aid should be increased? Or does it mean that most Americans are so blindingly ignorant about what goes on in their country that I shouldn't give two hoots what some poll claims about what they think?

14 years ago 03/23/2010 12:08pm EDT

re: DontFeedTheTroll

This is why we have elections folks. The left thinks that the 2008 election was an affirmation to install radical leftist ideas. The right thinks the election of 2008 was a repeal against right wing spending. One side is correct and one side is wrong. If you read the Tealeaves then its fairly obvious that this country does not want radical left policies in this country. We are still afterall, a center-right country. Its gonna be a long 2 1/2 years for the dems. I predict the GOP will take control of the House, and they will be nearly even in the senate. To me it looks like a one term presidency for BHO.

14 years ago 03/23/2010 1:25pm EDT

re: Rush OBeckity

The difference, moron, is that Obama changed his policy- he didn't force anyone into anything.

14 years ago 03/23/2010 1:34pm EDT

re: Robert Ginn

The midterms won't be the rout people think. Obama is going to neuter deliver the message that the GOPs vision that fell was one of denying working and uninsured Americans theirs. Moreover, it's a poor argument to run on repeal when some of the bill's effects will have already kicked to the relief of voters of all stripes.

Robert Ginn wrote:
This is why we have elections folks. The left thinks that the 2008 election was an affirmation to install radical leftist ideas. The right thinks the election of 2008 was a repeal against right wing spending. One side is correct and one side is wrong. If you read the Tealeaves then its fairly obvious that this country does not want radical left policies in this country. We are still afterall, a center-right country. Its gonna be a long 2 1/2 years for the dems. I predict the GOP will take control of the House, and they will be nearly even in the senate. To me it looks like a one term presidency for BHO.

14 years ago 03/23/2010 6:16pm EDT

re: I Love My Pitchfork

I Love My Pitchfork wrote:
Nice rebuttal MvB. Are of speaking of Cole and Ohanian? Do you also believe wages were artificially depressed? What of Keynes and an injection multiplier? Oh well, looks like I've been undone by inscrutability. Or maybe by just...more talking points.

What do you call what this ^ is? Not talking points? You sound like a polarizing political talk show host.

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