Marathon Training Week Ended 12/06

Goal 2:59 at Houston using 18/70 plan

Sunday - 20 miles - 6 miles easy and 14 miles @ 6:52 pace.

(this MP workout was supposed to be done the day before).

MP was a tad too slow but was on rolling course. Difficult but kept the pace even, but last 5 miles @ 6:48

Monday - 8 miles - 5x600 @5:52 pace + 1 minute rest.

Tues - 14 miles - 7:23 pace average

Wed - 6 miles recovery on treadmill plus 6x100

Thurs - 5 miles recovery

Fri - 9 miles including 5 miles solo effort @ 6:15 pace.

Disappointed - wanted to get closer to 6:00.

Saturday - 17 miler - 7:53 pace average. went terrible. Quads were dead from the start. Not sure if glycogen depleted, torn up, or just plain tired.

Thinking of adjusting my goal down to 3:03 and just go out at 7:00 pace flat and see how i feel at 20 miles. Probably will feel great to go 1:31/1:31 than to go 1:29/1:40.... Get the 3:03 under my belt and then go for 2:59 3 months later. I'm terrified of going out in 6:50s and then death marching home. Wimp or realistic?

Your workouts are around where I was last year at this time, maybe even faster and I ran a 3:01 @ Houston. You still have over a month to sharpen. I find the v02Max late in the cycle really improves your economy close to race day. I usually gain 10-15 seconds/mile when I add the v02max stuff.Houston is a fast course also. Not as fast as Chicago, but fast. Take it easy 1st mile, its basically a gentle uphill. The only major hill is an overpass @ mile 15 (and this hill is small in comparison to the Newton/Boston hills). The underpass hills late in the game are relatively short but screw with your head..Hopefully you'll have nice weather like last year. Great race, though a bit lonely after the half splits off. They have 3 hr pacers, try running with them for some company. The give you a lot of schwag and a huge Texas breakfast after the race....

That long run implies you are at sub-3:00 shape right now. Add in a couple weeks of sharpening and a taper, and you're probably well under. If I was you (and I basically am), I'd go out at 6:50s and then try to ratchet it up a notch from there.

Another (and anyone else),

What kind of v02 max stuff do you add? The way I've worked out my schedule now, I have my vo2 max stuff earlier (3xmile at 5k pace and the like) and my marathon specific later. How could I work a little vo2max work into a marathon specific phase? I would like to have those 10-15 seconds extra!!

Denver Runner wrote:

That long run implies you are at sub-3:00 shape right now. Add in a couple weeks of sharpening and a taper, and you're probably well under. If I was you (and I basically am), I'd go out at 6:50s and then try to ratchet it up a notch from there.

You mean my 6 miles easy + 14 @ 6:52 ?

I'm not so confident that it means i'm in sub-3 shape.

I've never gone sub-39 for 10k though i haven't trained for it specifically. My mistake this cycle was not doing a half marathon all-out to gauge fitness level. The double plus 10 rule has worked for me in the past. It would have been nice to get a 1:24-1:25 under my belt to really be confident about sub-3:00.

Hey 2ndtimemarathoner, what is the hammy/hip problem you have? If it pain or like a locking up?

You mean my 6 miles easy + 14 @ 6:52 ?

I'm not so confident that it means i'm in sub-3 shape.

I've never gone sub-39 for 10k though i haven't trained for it specifically. My mistake this cycle was not doing a half marathon all-out to gauge fitness level. The double plus 10 rule has worked for me in the past. It would have been nice to get a 1:24-1:25 under my belt to really be confident about sub-3:00.

I've always heard that the back half of a 10/10 is a good predictor of marathon pace, and you're averaging 3:00 pace for a 6/14. Plus you did 5 @ 6:15 as part of a 9 mile effort -- just the tempo stretch grades out to a 39 low 10k, so I bet you could drop a 38:00 if you wanted at this point. And in any event, I've always found 10k speed to be a bit misleading -- I only ran a 40:30 (admittedly at altitude, so it converts to a sea level 39:15 or so) a month before going 1:23:15 at sea level in a HM in hot conditions.

niarun wrote:

Another (and anyone else),

What kind of v02 max stuff do you add? The way I've worked out my schedule now, I have my vo2 max stuff earlier (3xmile at 5k pace and the like) and my marathon specific later. How could I work a little vo2max work into a marathon specific phase? I would like to have those 10-15 seconds extra!!

You really don't need any vo2 max stuff to train for a marathon. Workouts that are faster than marathon pace don't need to be at 5k pace or faster. Instead I suggest just doing tempo intervals/runs that are anywhere from 10k pace to half marathon pace. You still get the same mental benefit of making marathon pace seem easier from these workouts and you are still working the aerobic system which is what the marathon is nearly entirely made up of. Therefore, in a three week cycle I will only do one workout/race that is considerably faster than marathon pace in preperation for a marathon. The goal of marathon workouts is to prepare your mind and body for going LONG and HARD. It doesn't matter how fast you can run 600m repeats. So do long runs with marathon pace thrown in and do long marathon pace runs or marathon intervals. These workouts simulate what the marathon is really like.

niarun,

I follow Pfitz so he has v02max towards end. All at 5k pace.

Like 5x(600-800m), 5x1200m, 6x1000m, etc. about 50-90% time rest in between...

My 10k PR going into my first sub-3 was 38:49. My half PR was 1:26:54...

In a general sense, I think 10K pace is designed to make marathon pace seem easy and more comfortable so you can stay loose and relaxed and efficient. I think 5K pace does an even better job of this. And it improves turnover significantly. However, the faster you go, the more you risk injury. So if you're injury prone it might be wise to stay at 10K pace. I trained like "cookies" suggested for one marathon and I had trouble maintaining turnover. It just felt too quick. Instead I was forced to use an exaggerated leg lift and longer stride to maintain pace which eventually caught up with me around 18mi. Next time I threw in faster stuff in training (5K pace) and the turnover was there so I was able run with a low impact, "marathon shuffle". This kept the legs fresh at the end.

BostonBound,

Where/when did you run your Marathon PR?