So Letsrun.com pointed out before the NYC Marathon that they thought it was a dumb idea that Kwambai raced at 59min half marathon in his NYC marathon prep.
Now I always thought it was a great idea to run a HM in the marathon prep and when I raced them I usually went out 100%.
So are the thoughts here that
1.) the fact that he ran so fast in the HM means that he peaked too early or
2.) did he simply ran too fast and should have held back?
If the latter is the case then should avg Joe run a 1:14h instead a 1:10h?
What can Average Joe learn from Kwambai's too fast Half Marathon
Training Advice/Discussion
Marathon
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I don't think we should attempt learn anything from his half marathon except that he had a better day there than at the marathon.
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I think what Rojo was getting at in his preview was that, sometimes, it seems like people who run so-so half marathons before a marathon sometimes do disproportionally well in the marathon.
The implication, of course, is that they are too rested and/or "sharp" for the half marathon, and that the marathon and half-marathon are sufficiently different events so that performing your best in one requires you to train in a way that sacrifices your performance in the other. Much like it's very hard to run a spectacular mile during the cross-country season.
So if you are average joe and are training for a marathon, you don't have to hold back in your half-marathon a few weeks out from it, as long as your training is designed for the marathon and not the half. And don't be surprised if your marathon goes better than the half! You may have been just too tired to run well in it. -
A lot of slower people do great in half marathons in their prep only to be disappointed in the marathon. I've done both, but the marathon went better if I didn't taper for the half.
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I think the idea generally is that if you are in superb HM shape, you can't simultaneously be in your best marathon shape. The events are different and require conditioning of slightly different systems.
I ran my HM PR before running my most disappointing marathon. -
Likewise, look back at Goucher in the Chicago half and then the WC marathon.
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To look at times without training means nothing. In general if you run a fast half it means you are fresh which means you might be lacking in terms of volume or long runs and thus won't be in good marathon shape.
It's not rocket science. Speed and endurance are two different fitness levels. If they weren't then Bolt could crush Wanjiru in a marathon. -
lohalloran wrote:
To look at times without training means nothing. In general if you run a fast half it means you are fresh which means you might be lacking in terms of volume or long runs and thus won't be in good marathon shape.
It's not rocket science. Speed and endurance are two different fitness levels. If they weren't then Bolt could crush Wanjiru in a marathon.
Exactly...only the athlete/coaches know what a performance means...
great 1/2 marathon+little to no taper+specific marathon training=marathon pr
great 1/2 marathon+taper+little specific marathon training=shit marathon
mediocre 1/2 marathon+little to no taper+specific marathon training=good marathon
mediocre 1/2 marathon+taper+specific marathon training=mediocre marathon
It all depends on the training and how the 1/2 marathon was approached. -
Very easy to over-explain these things.
Another thing to consider is that people who do a good shorter distance race in the build-up to a marathon might become over confident and go out just a little too quickly in the marathon. -
flightless wrote:
Very easy to over-explain these things.
Another thing to consider is that people who do a good shorter distance race in the build-up to a marathon might become over confident and go out just a little too quickly in the marathon.
That definitely did not happen with Kwambai...its not like he went out faster then the lead pack, which didn't go out that faster anyway. -
Why so few Kenyans in the race? Did organizers want a US sweep?
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Interesting thread...I'm trying to BQ in December and have a 1/2 this w/end that I want to run hard in, a sort of fitness test (5 weeks out from BQ attempt), me and my training partner have gone back and forth on how much to taper this week, or whether to taper at all, I think this tips the scale, we'll run our full schedule, just shuffle the shorter the recovery run to the end of the week, not do a taper, and see what happens Saturday.
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I approached a half marathon three weeks before my marathon and ran it at similar pace to what I was shooting for in the marathon with the goal for the whole race to feel easy and to recover quickly. All this on the highest mileage and hardest three training weeks preceding the half marathon. I ran 2:18 off of barely breaking 1:11 three weeks before on a 130 mile week the week of the half marathon.
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Three of the top Kenyans were DNS- injuries
gwalkerruns wrote:
Why so few Kenyans in the race? Did organizers want a US sweep? -
It's pretty clear that Average Joe will probably never learn.
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It takes me a few weeks to fully recover from an all-out half marathon attempt. Someone fitter might be able to recover faster, that's just me.
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Good point. I like the idea of racing a half marathon 4-5 weeks before a marathon, but it is important to factor in both the mini-taper and also the recovery from a hard half. I would do a long run the previous Sunday and follow my normal schedule through Wed. Then reduce a little or maybe take a day off Thur/Fri and then race a half on Sat. It is then important to run easy at least until Thur to ensure recovery.
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I ran a 1:13h HM (all out) one week before my Marathon PB (2:38h). I didn't feel fresh on Marathon race day.
I know, not a good idea and I always wondered how much I gave away with this. Probably not more then 2-3 min I think... -
only one way to find out man
